Sensible Purchase?

S

[email protected]

Guest

• Sep 19, 2006

• #1

Hello all,

I'm looking at purchasing my first landy - with a (small) budget of
2000-3000 pounds. We have three children under 5 and another planned,
and I drive a 70 mile round trip each day. We want to be able to
transport all 6+ of us, plus lug horse food, tents etc around. We have
fancied owning a landrover (probably a defender) for some years, and
are now giving it serious thought.

I'm just getting rid of my Ford Escort TD, which has served me well,
but is a bit small, and now needing more money spending on it than the
car is worth. Hence the chance to get a landy... but have been
warned/advised by various friends that such a purchase would be madness
viz:

* Noisy / uncomfortable on long journeys
* Dreadful fuel economy
* Expensive parts
* Will likely need quite a lot of repairs each year

Is this a reasonable summary of what I would get for my budget? Would
I be better waiting until I had a bigger budget? Or is all this
inherent in a landrover?

Would appreciate advise / anecdotes!

Thanks,

S.

 

W

William Tasso

Guest

• Sep 19, 2006

• #2

On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:52:09 +0100, <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hello all,

How do you do?

> I'm looking at purchasing my first landy - with a (small) budget of
> 2000-3000 pounds. We have three children under 5 and another planned,
> and I drive a 70 mile round trip each day. We want to be able to
> transport all 6+ of us, plus lug horse food, tents etc around.

all at the same time? would have to be a 110/109/LWB

maybe a Discovery

> We have
> fancied owning a landrover (probably a defender) for some years, and
> are now giving it serious thought.

excluding the driver, a 110 (& Discovery) has only 3 seats with a 3-point
belt

> I'm just getting rid of my Ford Escort TD, which has served me well,
> but is a bit small, and now needing more money spending on it than the
> car is worth.

is a comment which applies to many Landies too.

> Hence the chance to get a landy... but have been
> warned/advised by various friends that such a purchase would be madness
> viz:
>
> * Noisy / uncomfortable on long journeys

Noisy? 110 is, yes. Discovery, not really
Comfort - my 110 doesn't seem to be particularly uncomfortable although
they do look like they'll be giving back/leg trouble

> * Dreadful fuel economy

correct - but with 4 small kids what better can you do?

> * Expensive parts

some are, others are ridiculously cheap.

> * Will likely need quite a lot of repairs each year

each unit is different - some do, others don't

> Is this a reasonable summary of what I would get for my budget? Would
> I be better waiting until I had a bigger budget? Or is all this
> inherent in a landrover?
>
> Would appreciate advise / anecdotes!

budget is probably on the low side for a quality 110 although the top of
your range should get you a decent Discovery.

Good luck.
--
William Tasso

Land Rover - 110 V8
Discovery - V8

 

L

[email protected]

Guest

• Sep 19, 2006

• #3

Well, the first prob is the kids, having 3 under 5 years and one on the way
will cause probs as most models of landy only have room for 5 bods (rear
sideway facing seats apart). As the new farcical seatbelt laws for children
are in the process of wiping large families and their vehicles from the
surface of the planet, you will need to fit 4 child seats (if 3 will fit in
the back and 1 in the front) and your missus will have to ride in the boot
or on one of the sideway facing seats! Sorry for the ultra negative reply
but I, along with half the country are ****ed off with turmoil blair and his
so-called laughor candidates.
As for a landy, buy and enjoy whilst you still can! I can thoroughly
recommend them for the fun drive and many a day in the repair shop learning
to maintain and run them. Prices of spares are far cheaper than any other
4x4 vehicle on the road and are in abundance. Economy is only a prob with
the V8 so its up to you to make the choice

Ian

 

B

beamendsltd

Guest

• Sep 19, 2006

• #4

In message <[email protected]>
[email protected] wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I'm looking at purchasing my first landy - with a (small) budget of
> 2000-3000 pounds. We have three children under 5 and another planned,
> and I drive a 70 mile round trip each day. We want to be able to
> transport all 6+ of us, plus lug horse food, tents etc around. We have
> fancied owning a landrover (probably a defender) for some years, and
> are now giving it serious thought.
>

I'm affraid your budget is a bit tight - for what you intend doing
a 200Tdi would be a be a good idea.

> I'm just getting rid of my Ford Escort TD, which has served me well,
> but is a bit small, and now needing more money spending on it than the
> car is worth. Hence the chance to get a landy... but have been
> warned/advised by various friends that such a purchase would be madness
> viz:
>
> * Noisy / uncomfortable on long journeys

Depends entirely on you, as the driver. I love the Defender driving
position, others hate it! Ditto to an extent the front passenger.
Kids in the back - well it depends on the kids - some seem to think
is great, others cringe in embarrasment......comfortable, it 'aint!
Tdi's arn't silent, but you can hear the radio - Station Wagons
have much better sound proofing on pre-300Tdi models.

> * Dreadful fuel economy

Not that bad - there's not a lot of full-size 4x4's that will do
a lot better, and many are worse, despite the maufacturers claims.
A 200Tdi 110 Station Wagon will do somewhere between 25 & 30 to
the gallon - and go a lot faster that you mate will tell you.....
Driving style also makes a hell of a lot of difference

> * Expensive parts

You must be joking! There's a whole industry supplying LR
parts at very good prices, and compared to Jap motors even
LR are pretty good.

> * Will likely need quite a lot of repairs each year

It depends on how you treat the vehicle to an extent, but
there's some truth in that, though parts are cheap enough,
and more importantly, easily available. LR's aren't built
with state-of-the-art sealed-for-life components as a
rule, so some parts that were considerd service items 30
years ago still are.

>
> Is this a reasonable summary of what I would get for my budget? Would
> I be better waiting until I had a bigger budget? Or is all this
> inherent in a landrover?

It sounds like you really need a 110 Station Wagon, and you'll
be struggling to get a good one for that money - Defenders
hold their value very well.

Discoveries I'm sure have their virtues too, particularly on
comfort, but they are not my cup of tea.

In short, if you get one you'll either sell it within a week
or keep it forever.......

>
> Would appreciate advise / anecdotes!
>
> Thanks,
>
> S.
>

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive

 

C

Cope

Guest

• Sep 19, 2006

• #5

William Tasso wrote:

> How do you do?

Super thanks! And thanks to everyone for rapid and useful info and
opinions.

> > We want to be able to
> > transport all 6+ of us, plus lug horse food, tents etc around.
>
> all at the same time? would have to be a 110/109/LWB
>
> maybe a Discovery

Yes... that's what I'd concluded.

> excluding the driver, a 110 (& Discovery) has only 3 seats with a 3-point
> belt

Argh... this is a bit of a show-stopper isn't it... sodding stupid new
laws!


> > * Noisy / uncomfortable on long journeys
>
> Noisy? 110 is, yes. Discovery, not really

I just drove an N reg discovery... was fine... reminded me of a range
rover, drove a bit like a transit... I liked it a lot.

> Comfort - my 110 doesn't seem to be particularly uncomfortable although
> they do look like they'll be giving back/leg trouble

Right - discovery was fine; not driven a defender yet.

> > * Dreadful fuel economy
>
> correct - but with 4 small kids what better can you do?

One of those "people carriers?"

> budget is probably on the low side for a quality 110 although the top of
> your range should get you a decent Discovery.

Yes... seems a 110 would be really rather old at my price point...

> Good luck.

Thanks!

> William Tasso

S.

 

C

Cope

Guest

• Sep 19, 2006

• #6

[email protected] wrote:
> Well, the first prob is the kids, having 3 under 5 years and one on the way
> will cause probs as most models of landy only have room for 5 bods (rear
> sideway facing seats apart).

Guess you can't get a child seat in the back ones?

> As the new farcical seatbelt laws for children
> are in the process of wiping large families and their vehicles from the
> surface of the planet, you will need to fit 4 child seats (if 3 will fit in
> the back and 1 in the front) and your missus will have to ride in the boot
> or on one of the sideway facing seats!

Yes... this has occured to me... golly... what a pain in the arse.
I've not followed this... is this absolutely happening?


> Sorry for the ultra negative reply

Not really negative... perhaps realistic, but does somewhat throw
spanners in the works...

> As for a landy, buy and enjoy whilst you still can! I can thoroughly
> recommend them for the fun drive and many a day in the repair shop learning
> to maintain and run them. Prices of spares are far cheaper than any other
> 4x4 vehicle on the road and are in abundance. Economy is only a prob with
> the V8 so its up to you to make the choice

Thanks... useful perspective.

> Ian

S.

 

C

Cope

Guest

• Sep 19, 2006

• #7

beamendsltd wrote:

> > * Expensive parts
>
> You must be joking! There's a whole industry supplying LR
> parts at very good prices, and compared to Jap motors even
> LR are pretty good.

Useful... I did wonder if this might be more assertion than fact.

> > * Will likely need quite a lot of repairs each year
>
> It depends on how you treat the vehicle to an extent, but
> there's some truth in that, though parts are cheap enough,
> and more importantly, easily available. LR's aren't built
> with state-of-the-art sealed-for-life components as a
> rule, so some parts that were considerd service items 30
> years ago still are.

Right... and if I'm prepared to learn to work myself, or get some
friendly support, this is a big advantage.

> It sounds like you really need a 110 Station Wagon, and you'll
> be struggling to get a good one for that money - Defenders
> hold their value very well.

Yes... well I can't go above 3000... so at that price seems a Discovery
would be a better idea....

My biggest concern is all this seatbelt rubbish

S.

 

C

Cope

Guest

• Sep 19, 2006

• #8

Cope wrote:

> My biggest concern is all this seatbelt rubbish

On which, the law states a child may use an adult belt (ie a lap belt?)
if there are two occupied child restraints in the rear which prevent
the fitment of a third.

Furthermore, it states:

In addition, a child 3 and over may travel unrestrained in the rear
seat of a vehicle if seat belts are not available.

So perhaps they could use the sideways ones if the others we used up?

I wonder if a booster-seat would be ok to use with a lap belt? Just
thinking of how to use that middle seat in the back of a discovery...

Any ideas?

S.

 

W

William Tasso

Guest

• Sep 19, 2006

• #9

On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 14:19:32 +0100, Cope <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> Cope wrote:
>
>> My biggest concern is all this seatbelt rubbish
>
> On which, the law states a child may use an adult belt (ie a lap belt?)
> if there are two occupied child restraints in the rear which prevent
> the fitment of a third.
>
> Furthermore, it states:
>
> In addition, a child 3 and over may travel unrestrained in the rear
> seat of a vehicle if seat belts are not available.
>
> So perhaps they could use the sideways ones if the others we used up?
>
> I wonder if a booster-seat would be ok to use with a lap belt? Just
> thinking of how to use that middle seat in the back of a discovery...
>
> Any ideas?

FWIW - here's how we manage seating in our Discovery ....

Front row - two adults

middle row - two child seats

back 'row' - two children (over the necessary height)


now - if only I could find a near side 2nd row seat that isn't combined
with the central seat I could usefully use that space for stowage.

yep - on balance I'd say a Discovery is your best bet - £3k should get you
a good one. take your time, there's plenty about.

--
William Tasso

Land Rover - 110 V8
Discovery - V8

 

B

beamendsltd

Guest

• Sep 19, 2006

• #10

In message <[email protected]>
"Cope" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> beamendsltd wrote:
>
> > > * Expensive parts
> >
> > You must be joking! There's a whole industry supplying LR
> > parts at very good prices, and compared to Jap motors even
> > LR are pretty good.
>
> Useful... I did wonder if this might be more assertion than fact.
>
> > > * Will likely need quite a lot of repairs each year
> >
> > It depends on how you treat the vehicle to an extent, but
> > there's some truth in that, though parts are cheap enough,
> > and more importantly, easily available. LR's aren't built
> > with state-of-the-art sealed-for-life components as a
> > rule, so some parts that were considerd service items 30
> > years ago still are.
>
> Right... and if I'm prepared to learn to work myself, or get some
> friendly support, this is a big advantage.
>
> > It sounds like you really need a 110 Station Wagon, and you'll
> > be struggling to get a good one for that money - Defenders
> > hold their value very well.
>
> Yes... well I can't go above 3000... so at that price seems a Discovery
> would be a better idea....

Have a very good look at the rear floor, rear wheel arches
and sills on a Discovery. Easy enough to repair, but expensive
if you have to pay someone else to do it.

>
> My biggest concern is all this seatbelt rubbish
>
> S.
>

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive

 

G

GbH

Guest

• Sep 19, 2006

• #11

[email protected] wrote:
> Well, the first prob is the kids, having 3 under 5 years and one on
> the way will cause probs as most models of landy only have room for 5
> bods (rear sideway facing seats apart). As the new farcical seatbelt
> laws for children are in the process of wiping large families and
> their vehicles from the surface of the planet, you will need to fit 4
> child seats (if 3 will fit in the back and 1 in the front) and your
> missus will have to ride in the boot or on one of the sideway facing
> seats! Sorry for the ultra negative reply but I, along with half the
> country are ****ed off with turmoil blair and his so-called laughor
> candidates.
> As for a landy, buy and enjoy whilst you still can! I can thoroughly
> recommend them for the fun drive and many a day in the repair shop
> learning to maintain and run them. Prices of spares are far cheaper
> than any other 4x4 vehicle on the road and are in abundance. Economy
> is only a prob with the V8 so its up to you to make the choice
>
> Ian

At your rate of breeding you're going to be out of possible vehicles double quick.
Maybe a minibus, Austin reckons to have the seat belt dilemma solved there.

--
Don't say it cannot be done, rather what is needed to do it!

If the answer is offensive maybe the question was inappropriate

The fiend of my fiend is my enema!

 

W

William Tasso

Guest

• Sep 19, 2006

• #12

On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 17:18:50 +0100, GbH <[email protected]>
wrote:

> [email protected] wrote:
>> Well, the first prob is the kids, having 3 under 5 years and one on
>> the way will cause probs ...
>
> At your rate of breeding you're going to be out of possible vehicles
> double quick.

LOL

> Maybe a minibus, Austin reckons to have the seat belt dilemma solved
> there.

Ahh yes - well Austin also has a cunning Land Rover/Bus hybrid plan IIRC.

How quick can Mr Shackles turn 'em out? the market (it would appear) is
waiting.

--
William Tasso

Land Rover - 110 V8
Discovery - V8

 

D

Derek

Guest

• Sep 19, 2006

• #13

"beamendsltd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:b54be0684e%[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>
> "Cope" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> beamendsltd wrote:
>>
>> > > * Expensive parts
>> >
>> > You must be joking! There's a whole industry supplying LR
>> > parts at very good prices, and compared to Jap motors even
>> > LR are pretty good.
>>
>> Useful... I did wonder if this might be more assertion than fact.
>>
>> > > * Will likely need quite a lot of repairs each year
>> >
>> > It depends on how you treat the vehicle to an extent, but
>> > there's some truth in that, though parts are cheap enough,
>> > and more importantly, easily available. LR's aren't built
>> > with state-of-the-art sealed-for-life components as a
>> > rule, so some parts that were considerd service items 30
>> > years ago still are.
>>
>> Right... and if I'm prepared to learn to work myself, or get some
>> friendly support, this is a big advantage.
>>
>> > It sounds like you really need a 110 Station Wagon, and you'll
>> > be struggling to get a good one for that money - Defenders
>> > hold their value very well.
>>
>> Yes... well I can't go above 3000... so at that price seems a Discovery
>> would be a better idea....
>
> Have a very good look at the rear floor, rear wheel arches
> and sills on a Discovery. Easy enough to repair, but expensive
> if you have to pay someone else to do it.
>
>>
>> My biggest concern is all this seatbelt rubbish
>>
>> S.
>>
>
> Richard
>
> --
> www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
> www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine
> Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive
Electrical gremlins - check everything works, and worn gearboxes making
difficult changes ,don't forget the innner wings not an mot fail but
annoying and again expensive if you have to pay for the job - very prone to
rot due to the thoughtful way the plastic liners rub the paint off and allow
water to collect at the plastic clip holes
I love my Disco and there was a conversion for Range Rovers with forward
facing 3rd row seats but I suspect they are probably used for towing Unicorn
horseboxes such is the rareity or forward facing seat are available for
Defenders the only issue being the seat belt mountings
Derek

 

L

Lee_D

Guest

• Sep 19, 2006

• #14

beamendsltd <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny
about:

>> My biggest concern is all this seatbelt rubbish

Where as I'm rubbing my hands waiting for a flood of good 110's CSW so I can
reap the benifits. It's a pleasure pain thing.

Though I suspect I'll be waiting longer than I think!

Lee D

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Sep 20, 2006

• #15

On or around 19 Sep 2006 06:19:32 -0700, "Cope" <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>
>Cope wrote:
>
>> My biggest concern is all this seatbelt rubbish
>
>On which, the law states a child may use an adult belt (ie a lap belt?)
>if there are two occupied child restraints in the rear which prevent
>the fitment of a third.
>
>Furthermore, it states:
>
>In addition, a child 3 and over may travel unrestrained in the rear
>seat of a vehicle if seat belts are not available.
>
>So perhaps they could use the sideways ones if the others we used up?
>
>I wonder if a booster-seat would be ok to use with a lap belt? Just
>thinking of how to use that middle seat in the back of a discovery...

I don't see why not.

The things I mentioned fit nicely on disco middle-row seats. The same lot
also do a 3-point centre belt fitment, although whether it's credible in a
disco I don't know.

http://www.auto-safe.co.uk/main.htm

no connections, other than as a customer.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Soon shall thy arm, unconquered steam! afar Drag the slow barge, or
drive the rapid car; Or on wide-waving wings expanded bear the
flying chariot through the field of air.- Erasmus Darwin (1731-1802)

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Sep 20, 2006

• #16

On or around Tue, 19 Sep 2006 16:50:13 +0100, "William Tasso"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>yep - on balance I'd say a Discovery is your best bet - £3k should get you
>a good one. take your time, there's plenty about.


Blatant plug:

there's one for sale here:


'95 M plate TDi 300, about 120K-odd miles. when sold it will have a new
head gasket... we could do a deal based on selling it as-is with the new
gasket not fitted, which would save me time and effort.

all works - side steps are a bit tatty and the central locking in the rear
door makes funny noises but still works. The wipers don't self-park
properly and as a result the intermittent wipe doesn't work properly either.
That's a new wiper motor, which is about 100 notes odd.

Seats are all sound and there's a brand-new set of waterproof covers, not
even fitted - they were got for the other disco but mother didn't like the
colour (green, but it clashed with the body colour of the other motor), so
bought some more. The TDi is epsom green (dark metallic) and the green
covers will look OK in it.

More-or-less complete history and 3 owners. Assuming you trust me to have
serviced it regularly... LR and independent garage history up 'til we bought
it.

erm... lessee. If I do the gasket (including a head-check and skim if
necessary) and fix the wipers and everything else, I reckon it ought to go
about 2500 quid.

Come with a trailer and fetch it (it is running, BTW, but I wouldn't take it
on a journey of any length due to the gasket) as it stands and it's yours
for 2K.

There's an option to convert the front end to vented discs. I have all the
parts, but I'm not including them in the price unless you pay for 'em, as
they're new, unfitted and will fit the other disco. I think the front pads
are glazed or something - brakes aren't really up to scratch for a disco
(which normally are very good) - however, I have a new set of pads I can
throw in, for the standard solid discs.


Anyone?
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Ask yourself whether you are happy, and you cease to be so."
John Stuart Mill (1806 - 1873)

 

B

beamendsltd

Guest

• Sep 20, 2006

• #17

In message <[email protected]>
Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:

> On or around 19 Sep 2006 06:19:32 -0700, "Cope" <[email protected]>
> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >
> >Cope wrote:
> >
> >> My biggest concern is all this seatbelt rubbish
> >
> >On which, the law states a child may use an adult belt (ie a lap belt?)
> >if there are two occupied child restraints in the rear which prevent
> >the fitment of a third.
> >
> >Furthermore, it states:
> >
> >In addition, a child 3 and over may travel unrestrained in the rear
> >seat of a vehicle if seat belts are not available.
> >
> >So perhaps they could use the sideways ones if the others we used up?
> >
> >I wonder if a booster-seat would be ok to use with a lap belt? Just
> >thinking of how to use that middle seat in the back of a discovery...
>
> I don't see why not.
>
> The things I mentioned fit nicely on disco middle-row seats. The same lot
> also do a 3-point centre belt fitment, although whether it's credible in a
> disco I don't know.
>
> http://www.auto-safe.co.uk/main.htm
>
> no connections, other than as a customer.
>

The Auto-Safe bloke was on Dragons Den last night. A wonderful
solution, just a pity the bloke had to loose half his business
to market the thing properly. So much for the DTI (or whatever
it's called this week) offering "advice".....

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive

 

B

beamendsltd

Guest

• Sep 20, 2006

• #18

In message <[email protected]>
Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:

> On or around 19 Sep 2006 06:19:32 -0700, "Cope" <[email protected]>
> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >
> >Cope wrote:
> >
> >> My biggest concern is all this seatbelt rubbish
> >
> >On which, the law states a child may use an adult belt (ie a lap belt?)
> >if there are two occupied child restraints in the rear which prevent
> >the fitment of a third.
> >
> >Furthermore, it states:
> >
> >In addition, a child 3 and over may travel unrestrained in the rear
> >seat of a vehicle if seat belts are not available.
> >
> >So perhaps they could use the sideways ones if the others we used up?
> >
> >I wonder if a booster-seat would be ok to use with a lap belt? Just
> >thinking of how to use that middle seat in the back of a discovery...
>
> I don't see why not.
>
> The things I mentioned fit nicely on disco middle-row seats. The same lot
> also do a 3-point centre belt fitment, although whether it's credible in a
> disco I don't know.
>
> http://www.auto-safe.co.uk/main.htm
>
> no connections, other than as a customer.
>

......... want to be a customer, but the website is knackered (too
much Javascript) - oh look, the link to the designers site works ok!

"Designers" strike again.......arrhhhhhh! That's one lost sale....

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Sep 20, 2006

• #19

On or around Wed, 20 Sep 2006 10:26:52 +0100, beamendsltd
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>........ want to be a customer, but the website is knackered (too
>much Javascript) - oh look, the link to the designers site works ok!
>
>"Designers" strike again.......arrhhhhhh! That's one lost sale....

I'm sure one of us could order some if you just want a few for your own use.

If you're looking to sell them on, however...


The site is all flashy and animated. Actually, I thought there was a plain
one...

[email protected]

is the email link on the page. there isn't a plain site, just flash - be
worth getting on to him and pointing out, politely, that he's in danger of
losing trade.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"The breezy call of incense-breathing Morn, The swallow twittering
from the strawbuilt shed, The cock's shrill clarion, or the echoing
horn, No more shall rouse them from their lowly bed."
Thomas Gray, Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard.

 

B

beamendsltd

Guest

• Sep 20, 2006

• #20

In message <[email protected]>
Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:

> On or around Wed, 20 Sep 2006 10:26:52 +0100, beamendsltd
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >........ want to be a customer, but the website is knackered (too
> >much Javascript) - oh look, the link to the designers site works ok!
> >
> >"Designers" strike again.......arrhhhhhh! That's one lost sale....
>
> I'm sure one of us could order some if you just want a few for your own use.
>
> If you're looking to sell them on, however...
>
>
> The site is all flashy and animated. Actually, I thought there was a plain
> one...
>
> [email protected]
>
> is the email link on the page. there isn't a plain site, just flash - be
> worth getting on to him and pointing out, politely, that he's in danger of
> losing trade.

I very much doubt that there's any point, the poor bloke would
just refer it to his "consultants" who are supposedly the
experts, and they would very likely just say "Well, eveyone *must*
be using the latest version of IE, so what's the problem...".

I once got a supplier to sit in front of a machine and try to
use their site to make half a dozen price enquiries in much the
same way as I'd used his site....... the flash, JS etc disappeard
a week later.

Mind you, having said that, most of the banks have finaly realised
that a simple site is a safer site over the last couple of years.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive