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running?

Discussion in 'Land Rover Freelander' started by wrxfifer, Jun 26, 2017.

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  1. wrxfifer

    wrxfifer Active Member

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    ok so with knowing little to nothing about these was just a wondering question to see what comes abck really.
    so freelander 2003 plate serenghetti td4 and seems to drive great drove home at a nice steady 70, however seems really slow and lacking power in 1st maybe 2nd but not so much just when taking off seems to be very little, thought there would have been maybe even a little punch or power with it being a 2 litre? does this sound like people maybe heard this before? and is normal or something causing this? dont get me wrong other than that its great
     
  2. MollyNomad

    MollyNomad Well-Known Member

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    Hello,

    Not really sure why you would lack low end punch but there are several things worth doing, reading on here if you have just bought a TD4. Firstly, check and clean the EGR valve and inlet manifold. These are relatively easy to do. You may find the EGR valve stuck open/closed but worse still badly clogged with soot and hardened carbon. Search EGR on here for a lot of info and YouTube also. Service the crankcase breather system, check the air filter is new, change engine oil and filters, fuel filter too. That should give you a known baseline from where to start from. Hopefully it should help. Reading on here, cleaning the EGR or doing a 'delete' of EGR can improve low end performance. If that makes a difference then I would look at checking/servicing all oil levels underneath the vehicle, gearbox, IRD and diff as well as a VCU check for peace of mind. Again, lots of information on here and a fair few videos online. FYI just bought my daughter a TD4, and that's what we are doing, going to do. We are not the first, either. Also, we live in NE Fife!! Hope this helps
     
  3. Skinny Mike

    Skinny Mike Well-Known Member

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    First gear is quite a low gear as there's no low range box, so no amazing take offs will occur until your in 2nd.
    Do the above cleaning and also clean the MAP sensor on the left of the manifold. I personally recommend cleaning the MAF as well, left of air box. Some say it makes no difference cleaning the MAF , but I use Liqui Moly MAF cleaner and it definitely makes a difference.
    Also consider fitting a synergy tuning box, these are clever little things and make a big difference. I only run mine on setting 1 and it's a different car to drive.
    Mike
     
  4. hd3

    hd3 Well-Known Member

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    unfortunately .. in standard tune ( no engine mods what so ever ) they are like that ..
    particularly once the egr and intake manifold have gunked up

    i got my td4 ( manual gear box ) at 37k miles on clock ..
    1st thing i noticed was that low rpm engine response was pathetic to say the least ..

    a few things inhibit the response ..
    ( i.e. given all the engine bits are in good working order )
    the egr unit ..
    the pre-air filter intake ducting .. and ..
    the restrictions on the exhaust caused by the cat and back-box

    the thing is .. the driver does not have full control over
    how much fuel can be injected on driver-demand ( go pedal )
    it's a case of the go-pedal acts as a 'request' ..
    and the ecu either gives permission for more fuel .. or doesn't .. depending

    on the td4/m47r engine .. airflow over the MAF sensor plays an important part
    the quicker the intake air starts to flow .. the sooner the ecu will allow more fuel to be injected
    then .. there is the air intake temp. sensor
    on older models the a.i.temp measurement is incorporated with maf sensor ..
    at some stage lr installed a separate a.i.t sensor just after the intercooler / before the egr ..
    basicaly a high a.i.t. means a lower air-mass .. cooler air means a higher air mass ..
    ( hence the fitting of an 'intercooler' after the turbocharger
    ( as the compressed air post-turbo is quite hot

    ideally for best engine response .. fast cold air on the intake ..
    and unrestricted exhaust gas thru the turbo be the way to go ..

    even with various mods done ..
    it still takes getting to 3rd gear on the manual box .. to get the air moving properly
    ( no idea about auto gear boxes )

    so .. as to various modifications to improve engine response
    particularly the lower rpm range ..

    get rid of the egr unit ( as mentioned ) and replace it with an egr-delete unit
    like this ( pic attached )
    egr_deletetd4.JPG
    added info here:
    https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/where-does-this-go.223312/#post-2536215

    and .. clean out the intake manifold ..

    do the air-intake mod.
    main thread here:
    https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/intercooler-problem-mod.126484/
    mine here:
    https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/intercooler-problem-mod.126484/page-2#post-3853325
    ( in that insulation is desired to inhibit engine bay heat soak ..
    ( on a sunny 27c deg day .. parked up .. engine off
    ( a.i.t. temps can reach 50c deg .. result be sloth-like response from engine
    ( and can take several miles of driving for it to cool down somewhat
    even without any fuelling mods like a tuning box or re-map
    the a.i. mods works well ..
    i've tried it .. turning all fuelling mods 'off' ..
    didn't notice a lessening of power until i went for an hopefully quick overtake

    fit a straight thru exhaust back box ..
    e.g. from MuddyMods
    ( here: .. https://www.muddymods.com/products/td4-performance-back-box .. )
    this allows the turbo to get moving sooner ..
    certainly helps low rpm torque ..
    ( and as a bonus .. it sounds better .. imho :)
    ( obviously depending on owners taste
    de-catting the exhaust would also help no doubt
    ( not done that myself .. can only speculate )

    get the ecu re-mapped .. and / or fit a quality tuning module
    ( the 'synergy' .. aka 'ronbox' is a favourite in these parts
    ( here: .. http://www.tuning-diesels.co.uk ..
    both will give a stronger engine response .. more bhp ..

    include a turbo controller .. like the DGB1 ..
    ( from the the same makers of the synergy tuning modules )
    it actually helps quite a bit with regards to engine response
    depending on its setting ..
    but .. do the other mods first ..
    as cool air movement in .. and de-restricted exhaust gas out are primary requirements

    oh .. and .. unless you think you need it ..
    remove the foam-surround from off the air-filter ..
    it's somewhat restrictive .. and i guess it's there to prevent some objects from
    puncturing the paper element ..
    more likely to occur when off-road i would have thought ..
    any object that would get thru the air-filter and maf housing grate
    would most likely damage the turbocharger

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    links to most of the above are in my sig. ( bottom of post )

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     
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  5. hd3

    hd3 Well-Known Member

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    looks like Skinny got his post in b4 me :)
    anyhow .. with regards to ..
    for 'on-road' use .. fitting larger tyres help with respect to 1st 'n 2nd gears
    e.g. instead of the standard 225/55/17 .. fit 225/65/17
    that ups the gearing slightly ..
    probably unhelpful for off-road use .. although bettering low rpm response / torque / power
    would help
    ( can't say really as i've never used mine seriously 'off-road' .. bar some dirt tracks and the like )

    mine will easily accelerate .. on the flat .. or up a slight incline ..
    from about 950 rpm in 3rd gear .. if needed ..
    i.e. no need to rush-think .. 'should i downshift to 2nd?'

    in stock tune mine was a real pig ..
    had to give rpm and slip clutch in 1st on any incline from a standing start
    and if i didn't get it right .. the clutch would shudder something awful

    no more of That :) ( slipping the clutch .. judderin' clutch/engine what's that? )
    hence i'm inclined to say .. or type ..
    a tuned td4/m47r lump .. be potentially much kinder to the drive-train
    ( obviously not a worry if you've an auto-box )
    and no .. i've not towed anything with it yet
    no doubt that would effect things .. :)

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
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  6. Skinny Mike

    Skinny Mike Well-Known Member

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    @hd3 very eloquent as ever.

    The air intake mod is on my list of things to do.

    Mike
     
  7. hd3

    hd3 Well-Known Member

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    lol :)
    wish i could do the 'british-banter' ..
    but as is .. has taken me ages / years to understand half of what's said
    i do like some of the stuff in the a.g. forum .. quite witty some of it ..

    ~~~~~~~~~

    btw: i think part of the (manual-box) 1st / 2nd gear get-moving response
    is due to the engine being under a light 'load'
    so not much fuel needed .. hence not much turbo action from the exhaust gas

    ~~~~~~~~~

    @ Skinny Mike
    you attending this outing ?
    https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/rivington-pike-on-the-27th-of-august.316803/
    am half thinking of going along

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     
  8. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

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    That would be a nice trip out hd3. Although it's a hell of a long trip for me, just for a 99!!
     
  9. Skinny Mike

    Skinny Mike Well-Known Member

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    I keep thinking I must go to one of these meet ups sometime. As it is that's the weekend after my birthday (22nd August)
    So I will be
    1: Away in the caravan
    2: Amazingly drunk, courtesy of John Smith's
    3: Making a complete fool of myself
    4: Taking the pee out of any Discovery Sport owner I can find, saying "you paid how much!! It's a Freelander"
    :)

    As for the manual/auto thing, 1st gear in the auto just revs and gets to about 10mph, then 2nd gear drops in and it sets off like a scalded cat. It then pulls happily through the gears 2-3-4 and holds 4th until you let off the go pedal or it hits 4000rpm then 5th kicks in and it pulls happily to about 85mph. It's actually a nice power curve in the auto's, with no drop off between gears. It's a shame the Jatco box won't take much more power over standard tune. If I put my synergy to setting 3 it slips gears, unlike @Nodge68 who has a facelift model that'll take more power due to a change in the box internals.
    Mike
     
  10. Skinny Mike

    Skinny Mike Well-Known Member

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    It's worth it, it's a right good view from up there. And the run will clean your engine out lovely.
    Mike
     
  11. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

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    Mine is on setting 9 on the Synergy with a digibooster set to 3!!. It goes vary well and doesn't slip in gears. Mine doesn't shift into second until over 30Mph, with the loud paddle down hard. The box seems to take the torque Ok. However I have noticed a bit of TC judder as the TC locks in 5th. So I think a fluid change is in order soon. I might even put a tube of Dr Tranny shudder fix in there.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
  12. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

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    You've not seen the view I wake up to everyone morning, so here it is.;)
    20170626_215232.jpg
    I clean my engine out on my daily commute. That's how I just manage 28.8 Mpg.:eek:
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
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  13. Skinny Mike

    Skinny Mike Well-Known Member

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    Kept an eye on it this morning on the way to work, at 10mph it goes into 2nd. Even giving it some stick it goes in at 15mph.
    I do have a TCM from a 53 plate as a spare, and that's completely different, holds on to gears alot longer, but still nowhere near 30mph to 2nd.
    Mike
     
  14. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I'd get earlier up changes, if I used an earlier TCM. Mine does hold in the lower gears for longer than I think it should.
     
  15. wrxfifer

    wrxfifer Active Member

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    wow thanks for all the replys guys look like there is plenty i can be getting on with, but think i will start with the egr.
    i am Glenrothes fife
     
  16. MollyNomad

    MollyNomad Well-Known Member

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    You are 20 minutes away from where my family stay(10 minutes if I'm on my motorbike tho') ;-) Got auntie in Balgeddie and son's are scattered around there somewhere...
     
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