ROT: Dogs, dogs, dogs

We now have new addition, SWMBO met Logan. He was due to be going
into a rescue centre, but it was decided that "we" would save him
before that happened.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?A2122228C

He is an 8 month old German Shepherd, not a pedigree mind, and is very
loving. His previous owner is an old lady who is going into a
retirement home, and can't take him with her.

He has never been on a lead in his life, as she had a paddock that he
could run in.

Decided to get a choke chain to train him to walk on a lead. I'm not
a huge fan of them, but they are useful for training. First walk was
about 2 miles long, and took nearly 2 hours..... He hated being on a
lead.....Jumping, chewing it, stopping and being stubborn etc, Had
him on the lead walking round the garden to then get hime a bit more
used to it.

Took him for another walk before tea, about 4 miles this time, was
fine with the lead.

He can't bear to be seperated from us, it seems to send him
bonkers....

He is causing us some concern, as every time we touch him, greet him,
or play with him he decides to urinate. In 6 miles of walking he has
urinated just once, and has not defacated at all. I'm hoping that
this is just a phase while he settles down.....

He's also intact at the moment, so I'm intending getting him done
asap, as this should also hopefully calm him down.

Somewhat more concerning is that he has had all his whiskers cut
off.... Apart from that he seems in very good condition with a lovely
glossy coat, bright white teeth, lean but not skinny.

Got him on a 1 week trial......
--

Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Newsletter Editor and Webmaster
Green Lane Association (GLASS) Financial Director
101 Ambi, undergoing camper conversion www.simoni.co.uk
1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, ready for sale! Make me an offer!
Suzuki SJ410 (Wife's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery
1994 200 TDi Discovery body sheel, being bobbed and modded.....

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 20:49:05 +0000 (UTC), Simon Isaacs
<[email protected]> wrote:

>He can't bear to be seperated from us, it seems to send him
>bonkers....

Seperation anxiety - quite common - you need to learn to 'ignore' him
(without being cruel). He will quickly learn that you're going to be
there. Leave a room, he'll follow you - don't acknowledge it go into
another room, then back in to the room you were in - all the time, not
acknowledging him.

Call him then make a fuss of him (even though he'll probably be by
your side anyway).

>He is causing us some concern, as every time we touch him, greet him,
>or play with him he decides to urinate. In 6 miles of walking he has
>urinated just once, and has not defacated at all. I'm hoping that
>this is just a phase while he settles down.....

Again, give praise when you've called him, or called his attention.

Dogs learn via association - if they make a fuss and you respond, in
whatever way, they associate making a fuss with getting some (any)
attention. When you do give attention, keep it positive and on your
terms.

I'm not sure 'on trial for a week' is going to work, actually.


--
"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one
of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being
increasingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs
In memory of Brian {Hamilton Kelly} who logged off 15th September 2005

Simon Isaacs wrote:
> We now have new addition, SWMBO met Logan. He was due to be going
> into a rescue centre, but it was decided that "we" would save him
> before that happened.
>
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?A2122228C
>
> He is an 8 month old German Shepherd, not a pedigree mind, and is very
> loving. His previous owner is an old lady who is going into a
> retirement home, and can't take him with her.
>
> He has never been on a lead in his life, as she had a paddock that he
> could run in.
>
> Decided to get a choke chain to train him to walk on a lead. I'm not
> a huge fan of them, but they are useful for training. First walk was
> about 2 miles long, and took nearly 2 hours..... He hated being on a
> lead.....Jumping, chewing it, stopping and being stubborn etc, Had
> him on the lead walking round the garden to then get hime a bit more
> used to it.
>
> Took him for another walk before tea, about 4 miles this time, was
> fine with the lead.
>
> He can't bear to be seperated from us, it seems to send him
> bonkers....
>
> He is causing us some concern, as every time we touch him, greet him,
> or play with him he decides to urinate. In 6 miles of walking he has
> urinated just once, and has not defacated at all. I'm hoping that
> this is just a phase while he settles down.....
>
> He's also intact at the moment, so I'm intending getting him done
> asap, as this should also hopefully calm him down.
>
> Somewhat more concerning is that he has had all his whiskers cut
> off.... Apart from that he seems in very good condition with a lovely
> glossy coat, bright white teeth, lean but not skinny.
>
> Got him on a 1 week trial......

We took an abandoned German Shepherd in much the same state 10 years ago,
she was terrified due to cruelty but a very loving dog. It took much, much
more than a week to get her to calm down. 10 years later she's a beautiful,
friendly dog that's now slowing down in the sunset of her life. Highly
recommended if you have the time & patience though. She also keeps my
purebred Shepherd pup (3 years old now) firmly in her place.

Karen


--
"I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
- Slartibartfast

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 20:49:05 +0000 (UTC), Simon Isaacs
<[email protected]> wrote:

>We now have new addition, SWMBO met Logan. He was due to be going
>into a rescue centre, but it was decided that "we" would save him
>before that happened.
>
>http://makeashorterlink.com/?A2122228C
>
>He is an 8 month old German Shepherd, not a pedigree mind, and is very
>loving. His previous owner is an old lady who is going into a
>retirement home, and can't take him with her.

What would possess anyone to put a German Shepherd with an infirm old
lady?

>
>He has never been on a lead in his life, as she had a paddock that he
>could run in.

You have to make the lead a good thing. Call him over, put the lead
on and then feed him / praise him. It's usually a pre-cursor to a
run, so my dogs go loopy with excitement when I touch a lead.

>
>Decided to get a choke chain to train him to walk on a lead. I'm not
>a huge fan of them, but they are useful for training. First walk was
>about 2 miles long, and took nearly 2 hours..... He hated being on a
>lead.....Jumping, chewing it, stopping and being stubborn etc, Had
>him on the lead walking round the garden to then get hime a bit more
>used to it.

Only of any use if they are slack. It's the noise of them that does
the job, not the tension. If he hates the lead I'd start with a long
cord lead on a comfortable collar, probably not even walking anywhere
other than 'round the garden'.

You need a mix of penalty and reward. I don't advocate beating dogs,
but the concept of 'ignoring bad behaviour' a la Jan Fennel will have
the same effect as ignoring bad behaviour in a teenager. Tell the dog
what to do, then if it doesn't comply, make it. Doesn't have to be
anything like as harsh as it sounds when written down.

Then again, you are quite a few weeks away from doing any kind of
training I'd reckon. Just make it clear what isn't allowed - pulling
and chewing the lead are good ones to start with.

>
>Took him for another walk before tea, about 4 miles this time, was
>fine with the lead.
>
>He can't bear to be seperated from us, it seems to send him
>bonkers....

He'll be rather disoriented - owner gone, all familiar surroundings
gone, food has probably changed, all routine is shot. But you are
being good to him and feeding him, so he's damned if he's going to let
you go. Fair play really.

As Martyn said, ignore him and just walk in and out and around. He'll
settle. When he's calmed a little you can start doing 'sit', 'stay'
and 'come', which he ought to enjoy. This breed needs work and
challenges, else he'll go nuts.

Does he have areas which are 'out of bounds'? My dogs never
(absolutely never) go upstairs, and certainly never go near our beds.
They come into the kitchen when told - the garden, conservatory and
garage are free space to them.

>
>He is causing us some concern, as every time we touch him, greet him,
>or play with him he decides to urinate. In 6 miles of walking he has
>urinated just once, and has not defacated at all. I'm hoping that
>this is just a phase while he settles down.....

Have you tried walking and peeing? It's fundamentally tricky!!
He's probably more interested in making sure you don't leave him.

>
>He's also intact at the moment, so I'm intending getting him done
>asap, as this should also hopefully calm him down.

Don't bet on that one. I'd say it depends on the behaviour - none of
what you describe sounds like aggression or domnance, so it may have
no effect at all. Post-op he's going to have a few issues for a few
days, so it will be rather easier to start with a calm dog!

>
>Somewhat more concerning is that he has had all his whiskers cut
>off.... Apart from that he seems in very good condition with a lovely
>glossy coat, bright white teeth, lean but not skinny.
>

>Got him on a 1 week trial......

Our collie came to us for a weekend 'home leave' from the kennels to
calm him a little. We were supposed to be doing a 'respite care'
thing in reverse. Trouble is he never went back...

I'm afraid 1 week trials are convenient for potential owners, but I
think they are cumulativley disastrous for a nervous breed like Sheps.
I've known some lovely Sheps and some complete wrecks - they seem to
be very easy to ruin and I've never seen one get properly 'fixed'.

Enjoy him!

--
Tim Hobbs

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 09:36:43 +0000, Tim Hobbs wrote:

> You have to make the lead a good thing.

Aye.

>> Decided to get a choke chain to train him to walk on a lead.
>
> Only of any use if they are slack. It's the noise of them that does
> the job, not the tension.

Yep, no good if the dog is constantly pulling, as you often see. That
isn't what you want. Keep the choke chain slack and when he does pull
a sharp jerk to pull him back but straight away the chain is slack
again. He'll soon get the message that pulling is not a Good Idea and
that walking nicely with a slack chain is. You may feel you are
constantly jerking the chain to begin with but dogs are not stupid and
will learn.

> He'll be rather disoriented - owner gone, all familiar surroundings
> gone, food has probably changed, all routine is shot. But you are
> being good to him and feeding him, so he's damned if he's going to
> let you go. Fair play really.

Yes, he's doing his very best to please and is showing he really wants
to be with you. Grovelling springs to mind.

> Does he have areas which are 'out of bounds'?

Good idea decide now any areas that are no-go for the dog and stick
with them. With all the other stuff, the lead and overly pleased,
don't be to strict on keeping him out. But make sure that he his never
allowed to stay in a no-go area, shoo him out, firmly if required, I
wouldn't shut a door on him at this stage but just repeatedly take him
out of the no-go areas. When you do emerge, make a fuss of him, as a
reward for waiting outside.

> I'm afraid 1 week trials are convenient for potential owners,

A week also strikes me as too short for anything but the most placid
and happy of animals to settle. I'd expect to see some improvement in
a week but not a change to the well trained and obedient member of the
family that one is aiming for.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 10:54:22 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 09:36:43 +0000, Tim Hobbs wrote:
>
>> You have to make the lead a good thing.
>
>Aye.
>
>>> Decided to get a choke chain to train him to walk on a lead.
>>
>> Only of any use if they are slack. It's the noise of them that does
>> the job, not the tension.
>
>Yep, no good if the dog is constantly pulling, as you often see. That
>isn't what you want. Keep the choke chain slack and when he does pull
>a sharp jerk to pull him back but straight away the chain is slack
>again. He'll soon get the message that pulling is not a Good Idea and
>that walking nicely with a slack chain is. You may feel you are
>constantly jerking the chain to begin with but dogs are not stupid and
>will learn.

Another thought - they only really work one way up as well... Without
putting one on I can't actually work out which way it is though!

--
Tim Hobbs

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 20:49:05 +0000 (UTC), Simon Isaacs
<[email protected]> scribbled the following nonsense:

>We now have new addition, SWMBO met Logan. He was due to be going
>into a rescue centre, but it was decided that "we" would save him
>before that happened.
>
>http://makeashorterlink.com/?A2122228C
>
>He is an 8 month old German Shepherd, not a pedigree mind, and is very
>loving. His previous owner is an old lady who is going into a
>retirement home, and can't take him with her.
>
well, he managed to make it through the night! Took him for a long
walk again this morning, which he loved! Then we went to our club
RTV. He curled up in the back of the disco, and was quiet all the way
there and back. Introduced him to people one at a time and he got on
okay. Barked at 3 kids that were there, till they fed him some chews,
and then they were inseperable. At last he had a dump!

Certain looks he gives you make you think he has a bit of Labrador in
him, especially the really floppy ears, and the face.

Shall be bringing him with us to the unofficial....
--

Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Newsletter Editor and Webmaster
Green Lane Association (GLASS) Financial Director
101 Ambi, undergoing camper conversion www.simoni.co.uk
1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, ready for sale! Make me an offer!
Suzuki SJ410 (Wife's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery
1994 200 TDi Discovery body sheel, being bobbed and modded.....

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 09:36:43 +0000, Tim Hobbs <[email protected]> scribbled
the following nonsense:

>On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 20:49:05 +0000 (UTC), Simon Isaacs
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>We now have new addition, SWMBO met Logan. He was due to be going
>>into a rescue centre, but it was decided that "we" would save him
>>before that happened.
>>
>
>What would possess anyone to put a German Shepherd with an infirm old
>lady?
>

apparently it was the old lady's choice
--

Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Newsletter Editor and Webmaster
Green Lane Association (GLASS) Financial Director
101 Ambi, undergoing camper conversion www.simoni.co.uk
1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, ready for sale! Make me an offer!
Suzuki SJ410 (Wife's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery
1994 200 TDi Discovery body sheel, being bobbed and modded.....

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 09:36:43 +0000, Tim Hobbs <[email protected]> scribbled
the following nonsense:

>On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 20:49:05 +0000 (UTC), Simon Isaacs
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>We now have new addition, SWMBO met Logan. He was due to be going
>>into a rescue centre, but it was decided that "we" would save him
>>before that happened.
>>
>
>Does he have areas which are 'out of bounds'? My dogs never
>(absolutely never) go upstairs, and certainly never go near our beds.
>They come into the kitchen when told - the garden, conservatory and
>garage are free space to them.
>

bedrooms, bathroom and lounge all no go for him.
--

Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Newsletter Editor and Webmaster
Green Lane Association (GLASS) Financial Director
101 Ambi, undergoing camper conversion www.simoni.co.uk
1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, ready for sale! Make me an offer!
Suzuki SJ410 (Wife's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery
1994 200 TDi Discovery body sheel, being bobbed and modded.....

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 14:04:41 +0000 (UTC), Simon Isaacs
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 20:49:05 +0000 (UTC), Simon Isaacs
><[email protected]> scribbled the following nonsense:
>
>>We now have new addition, SWMBO met Logan. He was due to be going
>>into a rescue centre, but it was decided that "we" would save him
>>before that happened.
>>
>>http://makeashorterlink.com/?A2122228C
>>
>>He is an 8 month old German Shepherd, not a pedigree mind, and is very
>>loving. His previous owner is an old lady who is going into a
>>retirement home, and can't take him with her.
>>
>well, he managed to make it through the night! Took him for a long
>walk again this morning, which he loved! Then we went to our club
>RTV. He curled up in the back of the disco, and was quiet all the way
>there and back. Introduced him to people one at a time and he got on
>okay. Barked at 3 kids that were there, till they fed him some chews,
>and then they were inseperable. At last he had a dump!
>
>Certain looks he gives you make you think he has a bit of Labrador in
>him, especially the really floppy ears, and the face.
>
>Shall be bringing him with us to the unofficial....

That's more than a week away! Trial period over?

--
Tim Hobbs

....and Simon Isaacs spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...

> bedrooms, bathroom and lounge all no go for him.

Zulu's pretty good about bedrooms, and he's allowed in the lounge. However,
if anyone goes for a quick pee without shutting the bathroom door properly,
they soon find they have an audience. He levers the door open with his
nose, sits politely, and just watches, utterly fascinated.

--
Rich
==============================

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 15:33:57 +0000, Tim Hobbs <[email protected]> scribbled
the following nonsense:

>On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 14:04:41 +0000 (UTC), Simon Isaacs
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 20:49:05 +0000 (UTC), Simon Isaacs
>><[email protected]> scribbled the following nonsense:
>>
>>>We now have new addition, SWMBO met Logan. He was due to be going
>>>into a rescue centre, but it was decided that "we" would save him
>>>before that happened.
>>>
>>>http://makeashorterlink.com/?A2122228C
>>>
>>>He is an 8 month old German Shepherd, not a pedigree mind, and is very
>>>loving. His previous owner is an old lady who is going into a
>>>retirement home, and can't take him with her.
>>>
>>well, he managed to make it through the night! Took him for a long
>>walk again this morning, which he loved! Then we went to our club
>>RTV. He curled up in the back of the disco, and was quiet all the way
>>there and back. Introduced him to people one at a time and he got on
>>okay. Barked at 3 kids that were there, till they fed him some chews,
>>and then they were inseperable. At last he had a dump!
>>
>>Certain looks he gives you make you think he has a bit of Labrador in
>>him, especially the really floppy ears, and the face.
>>
>>Shall be bringing him with us to the unofficial....
>
>That's more than a week away! Trial period over?

swmbo says so!
--

Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Newsletter Editor and Webmaster
Green Lane Association (GLASS) Financial Director
101 Ambi, undergoing camper conversion www.simoni.co.uk
1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, ready for sale! Make me an offer!
Suzuki SJ410 (Wife's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery
1994 200 TDi Discovery body sheel, being bobbed and modded.....

"Simon Isaacs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> We now have new addition, SWMBO met Logan. He was due to be going
> into a rescue centre, but it was decided that "we" would save him
> before that happened.
>
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?A2122228C
>
> He is an 8 month old German Shepherd, not a pedigree mind, and is very
> loving. His previous owner is an old lady who is going into a
> retirement home, and can't take him with her.
>
> He has never been on a lead in his life, as she had a paddock that he
> could run in.
>
> Decided to get a choke chain to train him to walk on a lead. I'm not
> a huge fan of them, but they are useful for training.

snip

Not read the rest of this thread .... just your post .... so you may already
have been given this advice (BTW good luck with your new friend). Imo you
should ditch the choke chain asap (and buy an easyleader or similar). They
are about £10 and worth their weight in gold .......... extremely effective,
the animal will very quickly get used to it, and it is kind to the dog/bitch
...... no neck pressure and instant control. I use them to train young labs
and have recommended them to many other dog owners (including a neighbour
that re-homed an Alsatian) and without exception they have all been very
impressed. You should be able to pick them up at any good pet centre/vets.

HTH ........... Richard

Richard Brookman wrote:
> ...and Simon Isaacs spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...
>
>> bedrooms, bathroom and lounge all no go for him.
>
> Zulu's pretty good about bedrooms, and he's allowed in the lounge.
> However, if anyone goes for a quick pee without shutting the bathroom
> door properly, they soon find they have an audience. He levers the
> door open with his nose, sits politely, and just watches, utterly
> fascinated.

It's disconcerting, especially when the wet nose gets a little *too* close
for comfort

K


--
"I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
- Slartibartfast

....and Karen Gallagher spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...


> Richard Brookman wrote:
>> ...and Simon Isaacs spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...
>>
>>> bedrooms, bathroom and lounge all no go for him.
>>
>> Zulu's pretty good about bedrooms, and he's allowed in the lounge.
>> However, if anyone goes for a quick pee without shutting the bathroom
>> door properly, they soon find they have an audience. He levers the
>> door open with his nose, sits politely, and just watches, utterly
>> fascinated.
>
> It's disconcerting, especially when the wet nose gets a little *too*
> close for comfort
>
> K

I won't tell you what he tries to do if I take a leak when we're outside,
then...

Put it this way, I think he listened to Morarji Desai too much as a puppy.

--
Rich
==============================

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

Richard Brookman wrote:
>>> However, if anyone goes for a quick pee without shutting the
>>> bathroom door properly, they soon find they have an audience. He
>>> levers the door open with his nose, sits politely, and just
>>> watches, utterly fascinated.

He's YOUR dog ....

....and Karen Gallagher spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...

>> It's disconcerting, especially when the wet nose gets a little *too*
>> close for comfort > K

Thank goodness he hasn't done that to me


RB waffled on ....
> I won't tell you what he tries to do if I take a leak when we're
> outside, then...
> Put it this way, I think he listened to Morarji Desai too much as a
> puppy.

Mmmm .... Zulu was obviously practising for when we get shipwrecked and we
three have to survive in the dinghy ;-)

--

Di

"The hurrier I am the behinder I get"

Richard wrote:
Imo you should ditch the choke chain asap (and buy an
> easyleader or similar). They are about £10 and worth their weight in
> gold .......... extremely effective, the animal will very quickly get
> used to it, ........
<snip>. I use them to train young labs ....

Abzolouterrrlyy ... Zulu is a maniac/uncontrollable on the lead/choke chain
.... behaves like an angel when he has his harness on (the one between the
legs rather than a nozzle thinggy)... it must be a 'man thinggy' ;-)

Apolgies for doggy talk on a LR group but the dogs ARE essential to the
wellbeing of the owners
--

Di

"The hurrier I am the behinder I get"

Diane Brookman wrote:
> Richard wrote:
> Imo you should ditch the choke chain asap (and buy an
>> easyleader or similar). They are about £10 and worth their weight in
>> gold .......... extremely effective, the animal will very quickly get
>> used to it, ........
> <snip>. I use them to train young labs ....
>
> Abzolouterrrlyy ... Zulu is a maniac/uncontrollable on the lead/choke
> chain ... behaves like an angel when he has his harness on (the one
> between the legs rather than a nozzle thinggy)... it must be a 'man
> thinggy' ;-)
>
> Apolgies for doggy talk on a LR group but the dogs ARE essential to
> the wellbeing of the owners

Dogs and Land Rovers were made for each other. No need to apologise.

K


--
"I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
- Slartibartfast

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 12:17:49 +1000, "Karen Gallagher"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Dogs and Land Rovers were made for each other. No need to apologise.

I'm falling in love with you - I'm sure you're pretty when 'not'
welding, too

"Mother" <"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 12:17:49 +1000, "Karen Gallagher"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Dogs and Land Rovers were made for each other. No need to apologise.

I'm falling in love with you - I'm sure you're pretty when 'not'
welding, too


Now you're frightening me

But here's my Tara
http://www.acslink.aone.net.au/ncc/Images/2003/Tara_on_the_run.jpg


Karen

--
"I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
- Slartibartfast