Release your TD5 power!!

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B

Buckhandle

Active Member
Posts
247
Location
Denmark
I am writing to share my experience lately.

If you look back, i've had a few threads related to surging/stutter problems.Ive spend a lot of time on this trying to figure out my problems one by one.

I've learned three things:

1) Removing the mid-silencer will reduce the exhaust resistance and may cause your td5 to get a little surging feel. Not big time - but in combination with the two following issues it is amplifying the surging/stutter problem.

2) The CV joints. It's well known I believe? If the splines are worn you will get a surging feel when engaging gears etc.

3) Now this is the most important one. My td5 has a AliveTuning remap, bigger intercooler etc - in general a nice setup. After the remap - the stutter and surging feel was very predominant. The workshop statute it to be a general/different engine problem - amplified by the remap. Trying to solve it - we fitted an new ECU (ouch!), throttle pedal, I exchanged the complete! engine harness myself, the injector harness, the MAf etc. All the usual stuff - expensive though! It was never solved. #1 and #2 helped - but the problem was never solved for real.

The past months I have also wondered if my engine really was providing the bhp/Nm which it should - considering the remap etc. I had this feeling that it was not. But you know - as time goes by you forget the reference point (122 bhp) ...

MOT came up - and I failed big time on the exhaust gas.

Something must have been wrong so I started goggle'ing again. A good friend also led me on the right path. Waste Gate adjustment. The workshop I used for the remap missed out on one very important setup issue - adjusting the waste gate!

I have a Nanocom so I could monitor the inlet manifold pressure.
I decided to start reducing the length of the waste gate rod until the point I hit 'limp-mode' and then extend the rod a bit again.

I took along drive, adjusted the rod a bit, drove again and and adjusted - full turns ..

I was almost crying. By every turn i reduced the length of the rod - the more Grunt I've got. The potential of the td5 was revealed turn by turn. The inlet kpa pressure curve slowly moved down towards the lower rpm and the peak kpa did as well.

I settled at the point where my peak pressure was 230kpa and without going into limp-mode. The turbo pressure at the low rpm is also a lot better. I probably moved the pressure curve down to the lower rpm by 500-700rpm!

The engine runs like a train now!

More important though - the stutter/surging issue has disappeared! So - the problem was really - that the waste gate was open at the low rpm even when the turbo pressure was low. The surging was amplified by the waste gate opening/closing along with the small throttle movements during the jumpy/surging/stuttering physical movement of the vehicle. So by adjusted the waste gate I believe it now runs completely closed at the low rpm and only opens gradually when I reach one bar boost. Anyway - it helped. I might turn it a bit more as i would like to increase my low-end torque a bit more. But I am close to hitting limp-mode.

So - adjusting the waste gate gave me three direct improvements:
1) A lot better low end torque..
2) Much more power..
3) The surging issue disappeared!!

Honestly - I've been sick and tired of my LR and considered to get rid of it.. But now .. I happy again!! BIG TIME!!

Best regards
Lars

(Sorry for my english language/phrasing - I hope you got the point ...)
 
Last edited:
Buckhandle said:
I am writing to share my experience lately.

If you look back, i've had a few threads related to surging/stutter problems.Ive spend a lot of time on this trying to figure out my problems one by one.

I've learned three things:

1) Removing the mid-silencer will reduce the exhaust resistance and may cause your td5 to get a little surging feel. Not big time - but in combination with the two following issues it is amplifying the surging/stutter problem.

2) The CV joints. It's well known I believe? If the splines are worn you will get a surging feel when engaging gears etc.

3) Now this is the most important one. My td5 has a AliveTuning remap, bigger intercooler etc - in general a nice setup. After the remap - the stutter and surging feel was very predominant. The workshop statute it to be a general/different engine problem - amplified by the remap. Trying to solve it - we fitted an new ECU (ouch!), throttle pedal, I exchanged the complete! engine harness myself, the injector harness, the MAf etc. All the usual stuff - expensive though! It was never solved. #1 and #2 helped - but the problem was never solved for real.

The past months I have also wondered if my engine really was providing the bhp/Nm which it should - considering the remap etc. I had this feeling that it was not. But you know - as time goes by you forget the reference point (122 bhp) ...

MOT came up - and I failed big time on the exhaust gas.

Something must have been wrong so I started goggle'ing again. A good friend also led me on the right path. Waste Gate adjustment. The workshop I used for the remap missed out on one very important setup issue - adjusting the waste gate!

I have a Nanocom so I could monitor the inlet manifold pressure.
I decided to start reducing the length of the waste gate rod until the point I hit 'limp-mode' and then extend the rod a bit again.

I took along drive, adjusted the rod a bit, drove again and and adjusted - full turns ..

I was almost crying. By every turn i reduced the length of the rod - the more Grunt I've got. The potential of the td5 was revealed turn by turn. The inlet kpa pressure curve slowly moved down towards the lower rpm and the peak kpa did as well.

I settled at the point where my peak pressure was 230kpa and without going into limp-mode. The turbo pressure at the low rpm is also a lot better. I probably moved the pressure curve down to the lower rpm by 500-700rpm!

The engine runs like a train now!

More important though - the stutter/surging issue has disappeared! So - the problem was really - that the waste gate was open at the low rpm even when the turbo pressure was low. The surging was amplified by the waste gate opening/closing along with the small throttle movements during the jumpy/surging/stuttering physical movement of the vehicle. So by adjusted the waste gate I believe it now runs completely closed at the low rpm and only opens gradually when I reach one bar boost. Anyway - it helped. I might turn it a bit more as i would like to increase my low-end torque a bit more. But I am close to hitting limp-mode.

So - adjusting the waste gate gave me three direct improvements:
1) A lot better low end torque..
2) Much more power..
3) The surging issue disappeared!!

Honestly - I've been sick and tired of my LR and considered to get rid of it.. But now .. I happy again!! BIG TIME!!

Best regards
Lars

(Sorry for my english language/phrasing - I hope you got the point ...)
Click to expand...

Thank f@ck you got it sorted, i have been following you previous posts as i have a td5, i was loosing the will to live with you, just reading them.
All sorted until next time.
 
You can run higher boost pressures without going to limp mode if you get a little black box gizmo that fools the ECU into thinking the turbo boost is lower than it really is. You need a mapping that allows for this otherwise you wont get enough fuelling at higher throttle levels. I run 1.4bar of boost and the TD5 really comes alive, even from idle, at that level. I would steer clear of boost levels higher than that as you start to get much higher exhaust gas temps which can lead to other problems such as manifold warping/cracking etc. The standard turbo is capable of sustained boost at more than 30psi so be careful.

The black boxes are not cheap at about £100 but I'm convinced they dont have a lot in them otherwise why would they be sealed tight to prevent you having a look. Maybe one day I'll open mine up and have a look but I'm not willing to risk damaging it at the current time.
 
Hi Shifty, Yep I know :)

.. I have considered to buy one as I would like to get a little more torque at the low end without hitting the roof at the high rpm...

Thank you .. great to hear that it works for you!

Lars
 
Forgot one thing ... which will put things in perspective.
I knackered my front prop-shaft within 48 hours after releasing the grunt :)

Lars
 
when you get there again, please, could you count and tell me how many threads are out of the nut on yours now after you've adjusted the wastegate? ..the std. i know it's 13 but i'm up to adjust mine a bit
 
Every one will be different. The suggested setting is just a starting point. Best way is to keep shortening the rod by a turn until the motor goes to limp then make it longer until it dont. Turn the adjuster and not the rod itself or you risk it tearing off the actuator diaphragm which gets expensive. You will need to test at full throttle in fourth or fifth gear under load, eg up a steady gradient, to get a true reading. Fit a boost gauge and it makes things easier.
 
I agree with Shifty ... measuring the rod make 'no sense'. Adjust the rod as explained and by this you will get the optimum setup ..

Lars
 
mmmm this is all very interesting. I recently had my 2001 TD5 110 chipped (older ECU so chip replaced) by Monster Tuning (Alive tuning regional distributor). Along with a mid box replacement cherry bomb, EGR removed and iTG filter all at the same time the difference was awesome - way better than my previous 90 with a SH*T Twister plug in box......! IMHO.

Anyway, after an electrical gremlin caused by an after market alarm and a very embarrassing early morning drive down the M5 with alarm and lights going off at random times. I made the fatal mistake of leaving my truck with crappy garage while i went to work.

As well as changing a few fuses and messing with the ignition they also decided to do an adjustment on the turbo waste gate ???????? as they thought that the turbo was lagging slightly....?

When i got the truck back i assumed that it was in limp mode as the power was defo lacking. Im hoping it's either the incorrect adjust on the waste gate rod or the MAF but the turbo is defo much less responsive that before the garage got it - BLOODY BUTCHERS.....
 
Hi Anthony,

In relation to turbo pressure, limp mode only occurs when the turbo pressure gets too high. When you turn off the ignition - limp mode is 'deleted' in the ECU and everything should be normal until you go beyond the maximum acceptable inlet manifold pressure again (app 230 kpa on my veichle).

So if you IMMEDIATELY feel something wrong without having pulled away HARD - then I do not believe that it is limp mode. Maybe - it is just a turbo hose jubilee clip which is not tight. If the turbo pressure anywhere can escape from the inlet system (turbo hoses, intercooler hoses, intercooler etc) you will have a significant loss of power.

Lars
 
Lars, hi,

Thx for the reply. Interestingly I adjusted the actuator rod this morning. It could be adjusted by 2 threads by hand so I assume that the crap garage had slackened it off. It wasn't obvious by any sort of witness marks where the rod had previous been set but they had trashed the turbo heat shield so they have defo been in at the actuator.

I read Shifty,s previous advice WRT adjustment until limp mode is triggered and my plan was to do 1 thread at a time until limp mode initiates. BUT by turning it by hand until it became tight (about 3mm) on the actuator rod has solved the issue. The turbo now responds almost instantly to throttle and even under load in 4th there is no limp mode initiated.

This forum really is hoofing good and shifty seems to be on the money every time. Knowledge is power as the saying goes ;)
 
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