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Rear Seat questions

Discussion in 'Defender 90 / 110 / 130' started by Smo, May 15, 2018.

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  1. Smo

    Smo Member

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    Morning,

    I have been doing some research on numerous forums trying to find some answers and experience regarding rear seats as so many mixed answers

    I have a 1989 90 pick up, down on the log book as a 3 seater (currently only two as no middle seat fitted)
    I am going to covert the solid cab back into the soft top cab back and I want to fit some bench seats in the back which I believe you cant use lap belts with

    My questions are:

    1) Is it easy enough to get dvla to change log book to show the extra seats so I can insure it with them extra seats. I have found that children under 12 are also not allowed in side way facing seats.

    2) Am I allowed the side way facing rear seats on a 1989 year land rover?

    Thanks
     
  2. 300bhp/ton

    300bhp/ton Well-Known Member

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    Children can use sideways facing seats unless there is a new law saying otherwise.

    What they can’t do is use sideways facing seats with belts.
     
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  3. dag019

    dag019 Well-Known Member

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    You can fit them to a land rover of that age, I have side facing seats in the back of my '89 110.

    The dvla is not a problem, you just fill in the changes and send off the V5 and they will update it and send out a new one.

    I would not bother fitting seat belts on side facing seats. They are not a legal requirement, but if fitted need to be fitted correctly and will be and mot inspected item. They will also be of little use in an accident as they will not prevent you moving forward (the direction of travel) and could potentially cause further injury. I did not fit seat belts to mine for this reason and my rear seats are very rarely used anyway.
     
  4. capo

    capo Well-Known Member

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    The regs about side facing seats and belts are bizarre; as @dag019 said, they are not a legal requirement and in addition to his points, if fixed must be worn by adults using the seats. However children (under 12?) must not wear the belts and if belts are fitted kids may not use the rear seats even they aren't worn. Adults and kids can sit in the seats if belts aren't fitted to the vehicle o_O

    The attached post by @blue beasty 'A definitive answer from the Dept for Transport, thanks to @300bhp/ton' sums it all up.

    One of those
    (rules) says that if belts are not fitted in the rear, then those 3 years and above may travel unrestrained. However, those under 3 years cannot travel – they must always use the correct baby/child seat for their weight in the front or rear.

    Please note especially that where seat belts are fitted, children who are legally required to use baby/child seats/boosters cannot travel in sideways facing seats because baby/child seats/boosters legally cannot be used in sideways facing seats. This does not mean that children may use an adult belt instead in these seats – it means that they cannot travel at all in sideways facing seats where belts are fitted.


    My Ninety CSW has 4 sideways seats and belts (PO) so effectively I cannot carry my grandkids in the back. :mad:

    Have thought about have a rear facing bench with belts against the bulkhead as that should take up less room than the Puma style forward facing fold up seats which are very expensive and take up too much space, and getting in and out of them requires dexterity :rolleyes: Anybody done or seen such a mod?
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Well-Known Member

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    What does the PO mean? Previous Owner fitted?
     
  6. capo

    capo Well-Known Member

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    Yep.
     
  7. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Well-Known Member

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    So, is yours a van back CSW? Which then had seats put in the back?
     
  8. dag019

    dag019 Well-Known Member

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    That not a bad idea. I’m sure you would be able to fairly easily adapt a set from an old
    Volvo estate. Although and this may be a silly suggestion so am happy to be corrected, as they are not a legal requirement can you not just remove the belts the P.O. fitted?
     
  9. capo

    capo Well-Known Member

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    No, it's a factory CSW (built 1985 reg 88) not a 'van back' (?hard top) and the rear seats were factory fitted; the PO put the belts on (the box has been removed)

    9148175.jpg
    Yes, that's the plan.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  10. Smo

    Smo Member

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    Spot on, thanks for the replies ill do some reading on the attached document - I will sort the v5 out and send it off when I get them fitted.

    Thanks' :)
     
  11. gymmaniac

    gymmaniac Member

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    Easy to do. Fitted two bench seats to the back of my 110 hard top. DVLA were easy, insurance didn't add anything, just makes throwing some mates in the back for short journeys a possibility.
     
  12. Smo

    Smo Member

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    Good to hear the DVLA are not an issue

    Mines down as 3 seats at the moment, but only two as I have no middle seat in the cab. are the benches for 2 people?

    So I could have 4 In back and 2 in front, so am I best sticking change to 6 seats down? Thanks
     
  13. dag019

    dag019 Well-Known Member

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    Yes the benches are for two people, however it is much more comfortable if you get the later singe folding seats. these do not take up any more room and offer acceptable levels of comfort for longer journeys however they are also more expensive.
    I would change the seats to 7, that is what I have for mine, that way if needed you can still throw someone in the middle in the front. I think from memory it is 8 and over that starts to cause problems with insurance and things, so if you are changing it you may as well go for the max.
     
  14. Rodeo Joe

    Rodeo Joe Active Member

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    This all sounds really confusing, my disco 1 has dickie seats in the rear with belts does that mean you don't have to use them legally?
    Also my series 3 station wagon has 4 sideways seats in the back, is it likely that it came out of the factory in 1974 without belts as it now has one on each seat:confused:
     
  15. capo

    capo Well-Known Member

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    If belts are fitted to sideways facing seats (and there is no requirement for them) then they MUST be worn when adults or children over the age of 12 sit on them.
    If belts are fitted children under 12 years CANNOT use them, even if the belts aren't used.
    If your vehicle doesn’t have seat belts, for example it’s a classic car, you aren’t allowed to carry any children under 3 years old in it.
    Children over 3
    are only allowed to sit in the back seats. These rules only apply if your vehicle was originally made without seat belts.

    Sounds like an aftermarket fitment although they could be requested. Front seat belts were compulsory equipment on all new cars registered in the UK from 1972, although it did not become compulsory for them to be worn until 1983. Rear seat belts were compulsory equipment from 1986 and became compulsory for them to be worn in 1991. However, it has never been a legal requirement for cars registered before those dates to be fitted with seat belts.
    https://www.rospa.com/campaigns-fundraising/success/seatbelts/
     
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  16. Rodeo Joe

    Rodeo Joe Active Member

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    Ok thanks that does make it clearer. I think on balance I would rather have them as both my kids are mid teens now anyway.
    Cheers
     
  17. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Well-Known Member

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    What happened to the original belts?

    I know it's me being thick, but I still don't understand this statement due to the bit in bold. When is there a requirement for seat belts on rear, sideways facing seats?
     
  18. capo

    capo Well-Known Member

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    There isn't a requirement for them but if they are fitted they must be worn!
    You're not being thick, it is a complex bit of legislation, and sideways facing seats are problematic.
    Rear seat belts were compulsory equipment from 1986 and became compulsory for them to be worn in 1991. However, it has never been a legal requirement for cars registered before those dates to be fitted with seat belts.
     
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  19. dag019

    dag019 Well-Known Member

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    There is not a legal requirement for seatbelts to be fitted to side facing seats.
    This means that if they are fitted:
    They can be removed with no problems and then anyone over 3 years old can use the seats.
    They can be kept, only be used by people over 12 years old, and must be worn
     
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  20. Smo

    Smo Member

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    All sorted, easy enough

    Log book back from DVLA with no issues
    Rang insurance, and a little bit of hassle with underwriters etc its all be covered with just the admin fee to pay
     
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