P38 diesel engine start problem

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parranger

Member
Posts
59
Location
Near Durham, UK
My P38 Range Rover BMW 2.5 diesel engine overheated caused by a cylinder head gasket failure. The engine was running when it went into the garage but loosing water caused by the gas pressure in the cooling system. The cylinder head was removed and found to be cracked and has had to be replaced. The replacement unit has been fitted and timing checked very carefully. Diesel is present at the injector unions so the injector pump is working OK. However, it won't start in spite of many attempts it still won't start. Could this be a problem with bleeding the system..how is this done with this engine? Need any advice to get it started. :(
 
parranger said:
My P38 Range Rover BMW 2.5 diesel engine overheated caused by a cylinder head gasket failure. The engine was running when it went into the garage but loosing water caused by the gas pressure in the cooling system. The cylinder head was removed and found to be cracked and has had to be replaced. The replacement unit has been fitted and timing checked very carefully. Diesel is present at the injector unions so the injector pump is working OK. However, it won't start in spite of many attempts it still won't start. Could this be a problem with bleeding the system..how is this done with this engine? Need any advice to get it started. :(
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Surely the garage should know this. If fuel is being pulsed at the injectors. Open all injectors slightly and close them as fuel pulse appears whilst the engine is being cranked. Cycle ignition key to bring glow plugs on after each injector is closed. The engine should start at some point in this process.
 
wammers said:
Surely the garage should know this. If fuel is being pulsed at the injectors. Open all injectors slightly and close them as fuel pulse appears whilst the engine is being cranked. Cycle ignition key to bring glow plugs on after each injector is closed. The engine should start at some point in this process.
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New glowplugs fitted to the new head? If so are they OEM? Could be as simple as crap glowplugs:eek: If the old glowplugs were used some of them may be faulty.
 
Datatek said:
New glowplugs fitted to the new head? If so are they OEM? Could be as simple as crap glowplugs:eek: If the old glowplugs were used some of them may be faulty.
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I cannot concieve that any mechanic worth his salt would not have checked that all plugs functioned before assembling engine. Glow plugs or no glow plugs it should still at least burp at some stage.
 
wammers said:
I cannot concieve that any mechanic worth his salt would not have checked that all plugs functioned before assembling engine. Glow plugs or no glow plugs it should still at least burp at some stage.
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Well if the owner has had to resort to coming on here for answers, who knows how useless the garage mech is?
 
Datatek said:
And that the mech didn't somehow lose the FIP timing.
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That is impossible unless he has not had the positioning pin in. The fuel pump timing cannot be changed by removing the cylinder head. The bottom chain has to be moved on the sprockets. Removing the cam chain from the cam cannot do this.
 
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wammers said:
That is impossible unless he has not had the positioning pin in. The fuel pump timing cannot be changed by removing the cylinder head. The bottom chain has to be moved on the sprockets. Removing the cam chain from the cam cannot do this.
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I do know that, but I say again if the owner is looking for answers on here who knows what the mech has done:eek:
 
Datatek said:
I do know that, but I say again if the owner is looking for answers on here who knows what the mech has done:eek:
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Maybe comes down to the fact that there are a lot of plancton out there these days pretending to be mechanics. A couple of NVQs or a college course and they are a race engineer. No substitute whatsoever for hands on experience.
 
Hi Guys

Thanks for all the points that you have made. I agree with everything being said and have said as much to the garage. The engine has now been started. The mechanic is experienced and went through all the checks mentioned here without success. The problem began with the new cylinder head assembly being supplied with timing set at No 6. (this was not noticed by the mechanic who quickly realised what had happened but by this time the timing position had been lost) A new set of cam followers had to be installed as the ones supplied with the new assembly were shot! .. The cylinder head supplier is a large company with a big machine shop .. The head was subsequently removed and replaced with timing set up from the beginning. To compound the problem the start plug sensor was faulty. All in all a sorry tale.
I have owned a number of Classic Range Rovers but this is my first experience of the P38 I have been told that these engines can be a pain and if my current experience is anything to go by I must agree. Can anyone re-assure me..please!
 
parranger said:
Hi Guys

Thanks for all the points that you have made. I agree with everything being said and have said as much to the garage. The engine has now been started. The mechanic is experienced and went through all the checks mentioned here without success. The problem began with the new cylinder head assembly being supplied with timing set at No 6. (this was not noticed by the mechanic who quickly realised what had happened but by this time the timing position had been lost) A new set of cam followers had to be installed as the ones supplied with the new assembly were shot! .. The cylinder head supplier is a large company with a big machine shop .. The head was subsequently removed and replaced with timing set up from the beginning. To compound the problem the start plug sensor was faulty. All in all a sorry tale.
I have owned a number of Classic Range Rovers but this is my first experience of the P38 I have been told that these engines can be a pain and if my current experience is anything to go by I must agree. Can anyone re-assure me..please!
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It's not the best diesel in the world, but well maintained it will be good for 250K miles or more. Just dont let it overheat or the head will most likely crack, a common fault on a lot of alloy head diesels.
 
parranger said:
Hi Guys

Thanks for all the points that you have made. I agree with everything being said and have said as much to the garage. The engine has now been started. The mechanic is experienced and went through all the checks mentioned here without success. The problem began with the new cylinder head assembly being supplied with timing set at No 6. (this was not noticed by the mechanic who quickly realised what had happened but by this time the timing position had been lost) A new set of cam followers had to be installed as the ones supplied with the new assembly were shot! .. The cylinder head supplier is a large company with a big machine shop .. The head was subsequently removed and replaced with timing set up from the beginning. To compound the problem the start plug sensor was faulty. All in all a sorry tale.
I have owned a number of Classic Range Rovers but this is my first experience of the P38 I have been told that these engines can be a pain and if my current experience is anything to go by I must agree. Can anyone re-assure me..please!
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Somebody is pulling your strings. It is fundimental that the engine and cam be set to firing on number one. The reason the tappets were shot is highly likely to be that the valves have made love to the pistons. I would choose a different mechanic next time. Hope you did not pay for the new tappets. He has dropped a basic bollock.
 
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The cam was set up on No 6 firing .. as quoted by them 'it is easier for us to set them this way' Like you I could not believe that a company could send out a head set up this way. I contacted the supplier and they confirmed that this is the case! The tappets were 'shot' as they were full of dirt. My guess is that they had not been cleaned from flushing, they certainly were not new. Re-engineered cylinder heads can mean anything!
 
parranger said:
The cam was set up on No 6 firing .. as quoted by them 'it is easier for us to set them this way' Like you I could not believe that a company could send out a head set up this way. I contacted the supplier and they confirmed that this is the case! The tappets were 'shot' as they were full of dirt. My guess is that they had not been cleaned from flushing, they certainly were not new. Re-engineered cylinder heads can mean anything!
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Sounds a bit of total bull**** to me, if the cam has been off it can be put back in any configuration. If the head has been re-engineered valves ground, seal etc it should be set at number one because you can't put it back in any other position. Sounds like it was like that when they took it off the scrapper they got it from most likely. Anyway your mechanic should have noticed that it is basic stuff not bloody rocket science.
 
Must agree the mechanic should have noticed..sorry..checked.. that the valves were set correctly before mounting the cylinder head onto the block it only required a 180deg turn to set it right.
 
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