P38 Coil Spring Conversion

I have a P38 which has been fitted with a coil spring conversion to replace the original air bags.

I have a couple of issues with this:

1. I understand there should be some form of plug in chip to overirde the airbag electronic, but I have a suspension warning light on all the time.

2. The ride height is fairly high - about the same as air suspension on wading setting.

3. The ride is very hard, with little body roll on the road, and you can feel every bump in the road, and the car tracks a little off cats eyes and man hole covers.

What springs should it be sitting on ? I am thinking for best road use it should be on softish springs and hi spec dampers, but dont really want to start trial and error to find out !

I have check all the steering / track rods etc, and she is now running on 16" rims rather than the 18's she was on when purchased. and this has helped with the tracking and general handling but ride is still very harsh.


Would appreciate anyones experience in this.

Cheers

Rob

JPSolutions said:

I have a P38 which has been fitted with a coil spring conversion to replace the original air bags.

I have a couple of issues with this:

1. I understand there should be some form of plug in chip to overirde the airbag electronic, but I have a suspension warning light on all the time.

2. The ride height is fairly high - about the same as air suspension on wading setting.

3. The ride is very hard, with little body roll on the road, and you can feel every bump in the road, and the car tracks a little off cats eyes and man hole covers.

What springs should it be sitting on ? I am thinking for best road use it should be on softish springs and hi spec dampers, but dont really want to start trial and error to find out !

I have check all the steering / track rods etc, and she is now running on 16" rims rather than the 18's she was on when purchased. and this has helped with the tracking and general handling but ride is still very harsh.


Would appreciate anyones experience in this.

Cheers

Rob

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Best advice is change it back to it's proper setup ASAP. Air suspension is a quantum leap better than coils as you seem to have found out.

proper kit should have come with over ride module ,sounds like someone just bunged hd lift springs on, britpart sell british atlantic full kits with over ride and springs to give std ride hieght ive used them and are better than others ive used they do hd as well but std seems to be more what your after cost £280 + vat plus i would fit some good shockers

I'm keeping quiet this time!

What sort of impact does this conversion have on your insurance ?

My LSE was converted to coils a couple of months ago and all the electrics were isolated simply by removing the relevant relay and fuses. It is a harsher ride but the springs are still bedding in and I expect it to soften a bit, still nowhere near as comfortable as air though. It sounds as if you have had at least + 20mm springs fitted all round, standards should give you a better ride but it won`t be revolutionary. If you do change and you do have +20`s you could think about keeping them on the back if you carry weight or tow a lot, and just change the fronts.
I would get it checked over by a good independent, it doesn`t sound to me as if your set up is right or that it was necessairly fitted properly.
My insurance wasn`t impacted at all once I`d explained it wasn`t an offroading mod, just economics

Prism said:

What sort of impact does this conversion have on your insurance ?

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It might have a bloody big one, if your doing 70 mph, or faster as some do, up the motorway on your coils, and you have to make a sudden evasive manoeuvre. Then because you removed the build in squat at speed to lower centre of gravity safety feature. You roll over several times and wipe out a couple of families with kids. Yes it could have a very big impact. In more ways than one.

wammers said:

It might have a bloody big one, if your doing 70 mph, or faster as some do, up the motorway on your coils, and you have to make a sudden evasive manoeuvre. Then because you removed the build in squat at speed to lower centre of gravity safety feature. You roll over several times and wipe out a couple of families with kids. Yes it could have a very big impact. In more ways than one.

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The biggest reason why not to then

poorly fitted coils or suspension brake parts etc could all be potentially dangerous just as air bag going down at 70 ,done properly shouldnt be a problem

jamesmartin said:

poorly fitted coils or suspension brake parts etc could all be potentially dangerous just as air bag going down at 70 ,done properly shouldnt be a problem

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Properly maintained air bags don't go down at 70 mph. Other than to automatically lower to improve stability. It's a moot arguement James. But the first time someone is whiped out because a safety feature has been removed, if the powers that be pick up on it. The **** will hit the fan big time. As they are a none standard fitment, when the new european legislation is brought in (if it is done according to the book) as is law in Spain and other european countries fitting them will be illegal. Unless they are an approved factory accessory. In Spain you cannot just bolt after market stuff to your car, it will not pass their MOT.

Go back to the EAS, get something like the Generation II or even better the Generation III's (£289.99 and £549.99 respectively). Sounds like you still have all the "guts" for the EAS so you should just be able to "pop" them into place.

May i suggest gen 2 more comfortable ride in my opinion

Another vote here for Generation II rather than III.

It wasn't solely on price, but I can't recall the other reason I opted for Gen II. If you decide to refit air, you might like to do it on an early weekday. My Rangie accepted Gen II on the front easy peasy, but there's a very tiny number of Rangies that will only accept Dunlops on the rear (the air hole is fractionally out and the Arnott's are intolerant of this). Yes, you guessed it, my little swine made me exchange for Dunlops after half a day of struggling and much swearing.

The only difference between GENII and GENIII is the alloy foot (GEN3 Air Springs are about 2inch higher on the front and 3.5inch on the rear).

The quality of the rubber is exactly the same (both superior toward Britpart and Dunlop).

I would go for GENII (safes some $$$'s).

And, if you stick to coils... there is a cable (on ebay) that helps you with the override. Pretty easyto install.


Regards,
Goswin

Goswin - LandRoverwinkel.nl said:

The only difference between GENII and GENIII is the alloy foot (GEN3 Air Springs are about 2inch higher on the front and 3.5inch on the rear).

The quality of the rubber is exactly the same (both superior toward Britpart and Dunlop).

I would go for GENII (safes some $$$'s).

And, if you stick to coils... there is a cable (on ebay) that helps you with the override. Pretty easyto install.


Regards,
Goswin

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Gen 3's also provide variable spring rate. Waste of money for road use.

gen 2's have vairable spring rate too i have them on my classic and you can tell the difference when it has lowered compared to standard springs.
why is it a waste of money on a road car?

There should be a plug that goes into your Becm and the lower/hieghten switch just gets unplugged. Mine has been on coils for over a year and covered 15K with no trouble, handles fine, would I change back to something I could not trust (EAS) not a chance. But if you suspect its been bodged, get it checked out.
Davie

wammers said:

It might have a bloody big one, if your doing 70 mph, or faster as some do, up the motorway on your coils, and you have to make a sudden evasive manoeuvre. Then because you removed the build in squat at speed to lower centre of gravity safety feature. You roll over several times and wipe out a couple of families with kids. Yes it could have a very big impact. In more ways than one.

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Yep Wammers is correct it will affect the centre of gravity, the P38 was desinged to run on air springs not coils, I'm sure a few will also agree there could be an MOT issue here as well if their not a certain type of coil?

theres no need to go over the top when it comes to air versus coils ,coils done right like anything on a vehicle isnt dangerous,its just as likely that an air bag will blow causing accident ,it does happen ive had quite a few in ,but luckely not in critical situation

How was the P38 'designed' to run on air springs. I can't see anything fundamentally different in the design of the chassis and the position of the springs, shockers, panhard rods, anti roll bars, steering dampers etc to any other 4WD, or the classic or disco, or a conventionally designed car with beam axles. Would it not be more accurate to say that it was originally 'fitted with air springs' which are arguably (given the amount of argument hereabouts) advantageous in certain driving situations on and off road?

Mine has coil springs and I am very happy with them. I did two 4 hour journeys over the last two days on single carriageway (A road equivalent) roads with very twisty bends and less than perfect surfaces. I was perfectly happy and stable at 70mph, touching 90 on overtaking when appropriate, and she drove just like a saloon car! - as she always does.

wammers said:

It might have a bloody big one, if your doing 70 mph, or faster as some do, up the motorway on your coils, and you have to make a sudden evasive manoeuvre. Then because you removed the build in squat at speed to lower centre of gravity safety feature. You roll over several times and wipe out a couple of families with kids. Yes it could have a very big impact. In more ways than one.

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IMHO a properly set up coil spring conversion in no way compromises the safety of the car and like any vehicle is only safe to the extent of the skill of the driver and the prevailing road conditions. I was taught to drive to an advanced driver standard and I am happy with mine. Driving at high speed requires a capable, well maintained and safe vehicle and a capable, well maintained and safe driver. Way more accidents are caused by driver error rather than mechanical fault.

The lower centre of gravity afforded by air springs, whilst favourable to handling in certain situations is easily negated by poor driving such as braking into and drifting around bends, poor gear selection (on manual), and failure to use the sport and 3rd gear (on auto) as well as poor road observation which gives a driver more notice of approaching hazards.

I am still considering a re-conversion to air springs when funds allow but after the last two days of stunning driving I am a little bit worried that it might not be an improvement!