Oil leak!!

Elmetadventurer · Apr 22, 2020

Good evening,

This is my first post here!

I have recently purchased a freelander one TD4 2003. I was a bit naive and have some basic mechanic / car experience so thought I could have it for a bit of fun with the family and something to work on in the evening, however I’m a bit out of my depth now and disheartened!

I noticed it always had small patches of what would appear to be oil appearing after it had been running (the small dried 10cm patches in the picture). I suspected it was the breather filter so upgraded this part at the same time as the service parts.

I took it for a spin after doing all this, and left the under tray off. It was a bit of a longer spin than normal and put the engine under a bit more pressure changing gears a bit later than normal, I came back to this leaking all over the floor!!! Rather deflated!!! And my other half not impressed with the mess I’ve caused.

In trying to identify where it’s coming from, but can’t be sure if it’s oil, transmission fluid, diesel. Looking at the pictures does anyone have an idea of identifying what this fluid might be? My suspicion is it’s engine oil. It’s such a mess under the engine it’s difficult to identify where it’s coming from, I’m in the process of cleaning it all but it look like it’s coming from somewhere in the middle of the engine out of view!

thanks,

Sam

andyfreelandy · Apr 22, 2020

Yuk!! Impossible to guess from photos I'd say. Black oil is usually engine oil but apart from that.....

I think I would get it steam cleaned and then note where it is coming from when you can see the engine!

Elmetadventurer · Apr 22, 2020

andyfreelandy said:
Yuk!! Impossible to guess from photos I'd say. Black oil is usually engine oil but apart from that.....

I think I would get it steam cleaned and then note where it is coming from when you can see the engine!

Hi there thanks for your reply! Yes I will keep cleaning and watching and send some more pictures.

kernowsvenski · Apr 22, 2020

It's pretty black. Looks like engine oil to me.

Jayridium · Apr 22, 2020

Pretty significant oil leak of black oil at back of engine, turbo oil feed or drain pipe? Or rocker cover gasket?

htr · Apr 23, 2020

A good clean up will kelp identify the path the oil is taking and possibly the source. You can buy squirt on or spray on degreasers that work well, use a pot scrubbing brush to loosen bit up. Then hose it off... Put old newspapers on the ground to catch what runs / drips off or some largish drop cloth. CRC make a driveway degreaser that will clean up the oil on the concrete.

Arctic2 · Apr 23, 2020

I you say you have changed the PCV filter /crankcase filter, did you or have you changed the oil fitter recently, if so you may have put the O-ring in the wrong place on the oil filter cap, also same for the PCV filter if not changed it can pressurise and spurt oil out of the dip stick.

Also check the intercooler hoses.

potus · Apr 23, 2020

Definately engine oil, not seen anything that bad since I had a defender on my drive...

.

Elmetadventurer · Apr 23, 2020

Thanks for your reply. I gave it a quick clean but will do a proper job soon, took it for a spin and what ever is leaking is above the IRD, (or its a leak at the top of the IRD), am I right in thinking that’s the engine block? There is no obvious leak from the top of the engine. Sam

Elmetadventurer · Apr 23, 2020

ah just seen all these other replies many thanks will have a look at some of these pictures and consider the advice!

Jayridium · Apr 23, 2020

The turbocharger is behind the engine block, above the IRD...

Although, if you have goofed the installation of the PCV filter, it might be oil running down from there, the head is on a slope, so the oil would leak out of the PCV, down the slope towards the back of the engine, along the back of the block and might find its way across to the top of the IRD.

Start with the PCV filger, look for oil aeound there, then if its clean(ish) rather than swimming in oil, your next most likely source would be the oil pipes for the turbo charger.

kernowsvenski · Apr 23, 2020

Jayridium said:
Pretty significant oil leak of black oil at back of engine, turbo oil feed or drain pipe?

These seem like a possibility to me. On mine a bolt on the drain pipe came loose, twice, resulting in a reasonably significant leak on eack occasion.

kernowsvenski · Apr 23, 2020

Arctic2 said:
I you say you have changed the PCV filter /crankcase filter, did you or have you changed the oil fitter recently, if so you may have put the O-ring in the wrong place on the oil filter cap, also same for the PCV filter if not changed it can pressurise and spurt oil out of the dip stick.

Also check the intercooler hoses.

Good suggestion Arctic, but to me it looks more like it's at the back of the engine?

Elmetadventurer · Apr 24, 2020

All thank you so much for the replies overwhelmed by the enthusiasm to assist with this.

The diagram of the engine block and turbo makes things much easier to understand. I have removed the top cover planting surrounding housing that I put the breather upgrade in is completely dry. The oil filter and and dip stick are dry too, there is a small amount of oil on the oil filter actually but it’s dry from when I removed the old filter. I’m assuming that I can get a better look at the turbo and possible pipe leaks if I remove the air filter housing and possibly the manifold?, and shall see what I find! Thinking ahead, if it is a filler of drainer pipe, is it necessary to remove the turbo to repair/tighten/replace or is it possible to do this in situ? I did see the thread showing how to remove it. Sam

Arctic2 · Apr 24, 2020

Removing the manifold & air filter box will not give you any better access to the turbo, either jack the front of the car up or put it on some good strong ramps, you will then see the turbo and its hose from below right drivers side.

Also check round the alternator for any oil over that.

Jayridium · Apr 24, 2020

The folllowing are a couple of pictures showing the turbo oil pipes on the turbo, one is a diagram and one is a picture from a turbo that has been removed from the engine. Sadly the pipes are at the back of the turbocharger, between the turbo and the block, making the pipes a bitch to access:

If it is the case that the engine oil leak is associated with the turbocharger, you might be lucky and it might just be the rubber hose LR005984 in the diagram above? But if it is either or both those pipes STC4533 or STC4534, you are probably best to remove the turbo, or at least partially remove it.

After you have removed the banjobolt and the silly little hose LR005984, the "ear trumpet" turbo outlet hose, and the "telephone" air filter to turbo inlet pipe,, there are two bolts from the turbo to the exhaust down pipe, and three from the turbo to the exhaust manifold. Those three bolts are accessed by removing the airfilter, and underneath the airfilter there is a triangular set of grommets, and a metal plate(?) to lift up, which gives you access to put a BI-HEX 12-POINT 13mm socket through the holes to undo the bolts. (I put the bihex in bold as I have an aversion to bihex/12points as I find them more likely to round a bolt head, so all I had when I did my turbo was single hex socketry, meaning I had to go against the grain and buy 12 point / bihex sockets - eesh!). Undo those three bolts and you should now be able to get back under the car and twist the turbo around enough to get the oil pipes off, fit replacements to the turbo, refit the turbo to the engine, and then start connect the pipes to the engine.

From the second diagram:

drop the turbo off the exhaust manirold as described above
the turbo will now be kind of stuck between the exhaust manifold / IRD /block / bulkhead as indicated in my diagram a couple of posts ago
roll it around so so you can see and remove STC4533 and STC4534 from the turbo
fit the replacements for those pipes to the turbo
then refit turbo to manifold
- possibly enlist the help of the wife or a child underneath the car to pull the turbo up to the manifold
- or creative use of string to pull the turbo up to the manifold
- or use threaded rod nuts and washers to pull the turbo up to the manifold
then fit the other ends of STC4533 and STC4534 to the engine
refit exhaust downpipe
start engine with fingers crossed

Obiously note and refit / replace any gaskets you encounter in the process.

[EDIT:] forgot to say, if you end up doing this, while you have the turbo in your hands, check it for play, especially important if the leak is caused by the turbo oil feed pipe (banjo bolted hose). To do this, put your finger into the hole in the casing, getting your finger tip onto the "nut" on the tip of the turbine wheel, try and give it a wiggle, do that for both sides. While in the exhaust side of the turbo, see if its just dry soot on your fingers, or is it black sludge. Sludge would inidcate the turbo is passing oil. On the air side of the turbo, check for oil on your fingers, again presence of oil means it is starting to pass oil from the turbo seals. You really dont want any play or oil inthere, a smidgeon is acceptable but more than a smidgeon you are probably best to plan to replace the turbo later on.

PS, this isn't technically hard, or requiring specialist knowledge, its all simple nut and bolt stuff, its just a bit fiddly because of where it is in the engine bay causing restricted access. I've included the pictures so you know what you are looking for. There may be times where you are going by feel rather than by sight, so if you have the picture in your mind from these pictures, you'l know what to feel for.

kernowsvenski · Apr 24, 2020

On mine, one of the bolts stc2350 came loose on two occasions causing the return pipe to leak.

Elmetadventurer · Apr 25, 2020

Thanks guys this is really helpful, children allowing I will try to have a look this weekend or as soon as I can and will let you know how I get on! Sam

Elmetadventurer · May 2, 2020

[GALLERY=][/GALLERY]

Jayridium said:
The folllowing are a couple of pictures showing the turbo oil pipes on the turbo, one is a diagram and one is a picture from a turbo that has been removed from the engine. Sadly the pipes are at the back of the turbocharger, between the turbo and the block, making the pipes a bitch to access:

If it is the case that the engine oil leak is associated with the turbocharger, you might be lucky and it might just be the rubber hose LR005984 in the diagram above? But if it is either or both those pipes STC4533 or STC4534, you are probably best to remove the turbo, or at least partially remove it.

After you have removed the banjobolt and the silly little hose LR005984, the "ear trumpet" turbo outlet hose, and the "telephone" air filter to turbo inlet pipe,, there are two bolts from the turbo to the exhaust down pipe, and three from the turbo to the exhaust manifold. Those three bolts are accessed by removing the airfilter, and underneath the airfilter there is a triangular set of grommets, and a metal plate(?) to lift up, which gives you access to put a BI-HEX 12-POINT 13mm socket through the holes to undo the bolts. (I put the bihex in bold as I have an aversion to bihex/12points as I find them more likely to round a bolt head, so all I had when I did my turbo was single hex socketry, meaning I had to go against the grain and buy 12 point / bihex sockets - eesh!). Undo those three bolts and you should now be able to get back under the car and twist the turbo around enough to get the oil pipes off, fit replacements to the turbo, refit the turbo to the engine, and then start connect the pipes to the engine.

From the second diagram:

drop the turbo off the exhaust manirold as described above

the turbo will now be kind of stuck between the exhaust manifold / IRD /block / bulkhead as indicated in my diagram a couple of posts ago

roll it around so so you can see and remove STC4533 and STC4534 from the turbo

fit the replacements for those pipes to the turbo

then refit turbo to manifold

possibly enlist the help of the wife or a child underneath the car to pull the turbo up to the manifold

or creative use of string to pull the turbo up to the manifold

or use threaded rod nuts and washers to pull the turbo up to the manifold

then fit the other ends of STC4533 and STC4534 to the engine

refit exhaust downpipe

start engine with fingers crossed

Obiously note and refit / replace any gaskets you encounter in the process.

[EDIT:] forgot to say, if you end up doing this, while you have the turbo in your hands, check it for play, especially important if the leak is caused by the turbo oil feed pipe (banjo bolted hose). To do this, put your finger into the hole in the casing, getting your finger tip onto the "nut" on the tip of the turbine wheel, try and give it a wiggle, do that for both sides. While in the exhaust side of the turbo, see if its just dry soot on your fingers, or is it black sludge. Sludge would inidcate the turbo is passing oil. On the air side of the turbo, check for oil on your fingers, again presence of oil means it is starting to pass oil from the turbo seals. You really dont want any play or oil inthere, a smidgeon is acceptable but more than a smidgeon you are probably best to plan to replace the turbo later on.

PS, this isn't technically hard, or requiring specialist knowledge, its all simple nut and bolt stuff, its just a bit fiddly because of where it is in the engine bay causing restricted access. I've included the pictures so you know what you are looking for. There may be times where you are going by feel rather than by sight, so if you have the picture in your mind from these pictures, you'l know what to feel for.

Hello again this is my current view just working through your advice on a Saturday evening and trying work out the diagram in comparison to my view!

Am I right in thinking that STC4533 is the bit the yellow arrow is pointing to? And the circle is the three bolts accessible from under the air filter? When I pushed one of the grommets through I did think to my self...what the F have I just broken....!

I have to admit I’m struggling to see the telephone section and also the two bolts attaching to the exhaust down pipe from here?

pretty basic DIYer here.

EDIT: I have found the turbo / down pipe bolts I have no idea how to undo them you would need around 8 extra joints along your forearm and a magic tool that shrinks and then expands once it’s arrived at the destination!

Sam

Jayridium · May 3, 2020

Elmetadventurer said:
[GALLERY=][/GALLERY]

Hello again this is my current view just working through your advice on a Saturday evening and trying work out the diagram in comparison to my view!

Am I right in thinking that STC4533 is the bit the yellow arrow is pointing to? And the circle is the three bolts accessible from under the air filter? When I pushed one of the grommets through I did think to my self...what the F have I just broken....!

I have to admit I’m struggling to see the telephone section and also the two bolts attaching to the exhaust down pipe from here?

pretty basic DIYer here.

EDIT: I have found the turbo / down pipe bolts I have no idea how to undo them you would need around 8 extra joints along your forearm and a magic tool that shrinks and then expands once it’s arrived at the destination!

Sam

I think you are right, STC4533 is the pipe you have the arrow on, you can just make out the bottom of the hex for the banjo bolt in that picture. And yes the circle denotes the underside of the three bolts for the turbo accessible through the air filter. As for the down pipe bolts, its been a while since I did mine, but I vaguely recall doing some tomfoolery with a 1/4" drive socket set and a few exensions and one or two swivels coming in through the passenger side wheel arch to get onto those bolts.

Oil leak!!

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