Other Non LR........

Hope you don't mind me asking here about a non Rangie.

It's a 2006 Pug Partner, Diesel, but no Turbo.

A friend mother believes she's been duped by a localish village garage,
She had a clutch 'repair' and a service done 3 days ago.
According to 'she', the owner mechanic was a 'shifty sort, lack of eye contact...bla bla.

Well, he told her that the head gaskets gone, pointing to the black slick in the coolant tank. In her mind she feels garage 'placed' dirty oil there for whatever reason.

Ok, anyway, I've had a gander and the tank is indeed black with oil, a look over the engine and it's not free of historic oil leakage, but I believe they may be from cam cover, no biggy.
She also tells me it did not use any oil, or water to speak off.

The oil is new and has no trace of water or emulsion, equally clean under filler cap.

(It did get hot once in the last 2 months she says, but it did no go into the red!! I will certainly check fan for operation and pop a new stat in. Rad looks mint.)

Long story longer, drained the coolant, removed tank and flushed it with degreaser, then a couple of rinses with fairy.

When I was draining the coolant I thought, aha, it's running clean......and it did until the last moment.

After a wee think, I should probably have removed the tank first, then drained the coolant, because it dawned on me slowly that the oil may not emulsify into coolant in the same manner that coolant will easily emulsify into oil.

My aim is to clean the coolant system of oil, refill and monitor the situation to see if oil reappears.
But in all my years I've only ever had coolant in oil, not oil in coolant, so question is, what do I clean the oil out WITH?
I'm thinking maybe very diluted fairy.??

If the oil returns then it's head off!!

Cheers Me Dears.

Have you tried a hydrocarbon 'sniff' test?

But then again, if the HG is gone between oil and water way, you won't get hydrocarbons!

Oil pressure is around 3 bar or so, cooling system is usually only 1.5 bar or thereabouts...so any pressure leak the oil will win and make its way into the coolant...I would still expect to see the usual emulsified mess as the water pump churns it up!

It’s down to pressure I guess, compression beats coolant system pressure hence the sniff test, coolant pressure beats oil pressure hence water in the oil causing the white sludge in the oil.
That might not be true in a all cases but seems logical to me

If head casket was gone water to oil, when you turn of the engine off there is still pressure in the cooling system so water would then get in to oil.

dam to slow typing HC beat me, better not let Alan know he might get the wrong idea.

No sniff test.
I guess water into oil will emulsify because of pump, bearings and micro galleries, and pressure as you say.

Tomorrow I will be mostly doing a couple or three coolant fills with just water and a dash of fairy (unless somebody can enlighten me toward another product), getting it up to temp, draining etc etc.

It's 50/50 on oil returning, and I may toss in some K-seal before condemning the Woman to an empty purse.

brianp38dse said:

If head casket was gone water to oil, when you turn of the engine off there is still pressure in the cooling system so water would then get in to oil.

dam to slow typing HC beat me, better not let Alan know he might get the wrong idea.

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It’s not an exclusive relationship !

......and we all... came....togetherrr......

NO water in oil.
YES oil in water, but no emulsion...
NO hydraulic action.

holidaychicken said:

It’s not an exclusive relationship !

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Don't tell GR that.

I suppose if rings were shot and oil in cylinder and cylinder not firing and head gasket gone or maybe block cracked between oil way and coolant and cylinder and and and ....
I used forte cooling system flush but just seemed like a mild detergent but nice though
Forte Bio Degreaser & Cooling System Flush (400ml).

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/282240797728

someone could have put oil in to the coolant , is there an oil cooler running through a rad side tank

Thanks James, as per my post it is 'her' suspicion that it's been deliberately tainted.

No oil coolers, it's manual Non turbo.

The oil in the coolant tank looked way blacker than the sump oil. No scientifically proven, just my finger.

holidaychicken said:

It’s down to pressure I guess, compression beats coolant system pressure hence the sniff test, coolant pressure beats zero oil pressure (engine off) hence water in the oil causing the white sludge in the oil.
That might not be true in a all cases but seems logical to me

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I knew you meant this.

Will check hoses for hardness tomorrow when I fire her up, but the car has done maybe a hundred miles since service and no evidence of water in oil........surely if HG was gone between oil/water way the coolant pressure would reverse the flow overnight?
Coolant level was normal?

brianp38dse said:

If head casket was gone water to oil, when you turn of the engine off there is still pressure in the cooling system so water would then get in to oil.

dam to slow typing HC beat me, better not let Alan know he might get the wrong idea.

Click to expand...

myfirstl322 said:

No sniff test.
I guess water into oil will emulsify because of pump, bearings and micro galleries, and pressure as you say.

Tomorrow I will be mostly doing a couple or three coolant fills with just water and a dash of fairy (unless somebody can enlighten me toward another product), getting it up to temp, draining etc etc.

It's 50/50 on oil returning, and I may toss in some K-seal before condemning her to an empty purse.

Click to expand...

we'll follow the bubbles.

brianp38dse said:

Don't tell GR that.

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She already knows, I have a large appetite.

The best thing for cleaning the cooling system out is a can of petrol injector cleaner in it first ( I kid you not ) run it up to temp then flush it out well with plain water then same again with rad flush and again flush it out well, works every time.

myfirstl322 said:

I knew you meant this.

Will check hoses for hardness tomorrow when I fire her up, but the car has done maybe a hundred miles since service and no evidence of water in oil........surely if HG was gone between oil/water way the coolant pressure would reverse the flow overnight?
Coolant level was normal?

Click to expand...

I suppose the idle oil pressure is lower than the cooling system pressure and the engine revving oil pressure is higher than the cooling system pressure so it could be like Alan and swing both ways but I would guess the cooling system would be leaking if it was pressurised to 60 psi unless it has a one way valve fitted to the leak......... in other words i dont really know

And i just realised it is a peugeot and the last good one of them that was made was the 205 1.9 GTI and maybe the 309 and 306 D Turbo

tomcat59alan said:

She already knows, I have a large appetite.

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It’s the only thing you have that is large

holidaychicken said:

It’s the only thing you have that is large

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It's big enough to fill a pram.

Take a plastic juice bottle fill with water ,hold it in the expansion tank,The oil will float up inside the bottle like a wax lava lamp [better when warm]... Iv had cars in that people have put oil in the water by mistake ,others think it will stop noisy water pumps

tomcat59alan said:

It's big enough to fill a pram.

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Oh yeah, i found the one
Nice nail varnish mate, is that the one i got you for your birthday?