Metal pieces in my old oil at oil change

Hi - I'm hoping to get some advice here.

Ive got a 1999 Td5 that I've just changed the oil on and found metal 'strands' in the oil when tipping the old oil into spare canisters.

The car has done 119K but was rebuilt around 15K ago due to the dreaded oil pump bolt failure.

It drives great with no issues I can notice anyway so I was rather surprised to see the metal in the drain can.

I would describe the metal as strands because they arent pieces or chunks, but are more like thin wires intertwined if that makes sense...much like the insides of a strip of wire. The largest piece is around 2cm but most are much smaller.

I did the last service at 114K and 12m ago, using JGS 4x4 filters and Triple QX 5W30 fully synthetic oil. There were no shavings at that service.

I've drained the oil from both filters and there are no shavings there so the pieces were all in the sump - or contained totally within the filter.

I wondered if I'd snagged the centrifugal filter in the housing but it looked absolutely mint on removal from the housing.

Crucially the shavings aren't being picked up by my trusty magnet tool so does that mean they might be aluminium and if so what would create those in the sump...?

Some facts:
- engine 're-built' at 104K ish due to oil pump bolt failure
- engine run in nicely thereafter and an early service done to remove associated particles
- engine then home serviced say 6K later with no issues
- engine then home serviced a further 6K later with no issues
- engine then serviced 5K later with the filings
- all works OK as far as I can tell
- oil on all services I have done is quite black, well very black when removed but normal for a diesel?

So, what do we think? We plan to take the vehicle on holiday on Monday (600 mile round trip) and then again early September (800 miles) and don't want any issues. Was considering using it for next weeks' trip, then dropping the oil and seeing if we have more shavings before deciding on the longer trip in a few weeks but most of all I just want to understand whether there is a real problem here.

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Hopefully these pics will be visible?

The fact that your engine was and still is running fine I would personally not be too concerned yet. I would drop your service intervals down though and monitor closely. 12k seems a long time, 6k is more generally recommended. I would do another 1000miles and see what it’s like after that. If it’s ok then do another 2000 and check again, etc. I’d also use better quality filters than the cheap JGS ones.

tom1979 said:

The fact that your engine was and still is running fine I would personally not be too concerned yet. I would drop your service intervals down though and monitor closely. 12k seems a long time, 6k is more generally recommended. I would do another 1000miles and see what it’s like after that. If it’s ok then do another 2000 and check again, etc. I’d also use better quality filters than the cheap JGS ones.

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Thanks for that. Thats chiming exactly with my thinking about doing next weeks trip of 600 miles and some messing about and then checking the oil before the bigger trip.

Just to be clear though the services haven't extended to 12K - I've been sure to keep them short since the rebuild.

I suppose what I'm trying to understand is why there are metallic particles, well pieces really, suddenly, and whether this is likely to be a one-off or something endemic. I know the most cautious approach would be to take the sump off, take the car to a specialist etc and wait for a whacking great investigation bill, but can/do these engines just shed some metal and then act as good as gold for years, and therefore beyond the sensible approach of checking in say 1K and then 2K I shouldn't really worry?

Have you took the rocker cover off and checked the obvious things?

If it was mine I'd want the sump off for inspection and an oil pressure check with a gauge. I'd suspect a shell type bearing starting to fail.

tom1979 said:

Have you took the rocker cover off and checked the obvious things?

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I haven't because we would still like to take the Landy on holiday on Monday. We have other cars we can take but every August we take the family Landy on holiday and given all the **** recently I'd like this year to be like all the others. If that's not a sensible thing to do then our, more suitable vehicles are available for the holiday but it wont be quite the same.

Your question is sort of at the nub of mine...take it and shortern the intervals or park it and get involved. If really the former will do because on the balance of probability that's all that is require great but I am also prepared to make the sad call and park the Landy up for a month whilst life rolls on...

If they are alloy I would suggest something steel is shaving them off something.

Might be worth getting a pry bar/large screwdriver and seeing if you can get the front crank pulley to move in and out, ie back and forth.
I think you may have to remove the sump for a look see.

Could be a dry piston, caused by broken oil scraper, or broken ring

lynall said:

If they are alloy I would suggest something steel is shaving them off something.

Might be worth getting a pry bar/large screwdriver and seeing if you can get the front crank pulley to move in and out, ie back and forth.
I think you may have to remove the sump for a look see.

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OK - I'll give that a check over today hopefully. Since you mentioned it I've been doing some research into this and I do have some vibration north of 3K rpm which I tried to cure with new engine mounts but it didn't fully go away so perhaps this could be the cause? If the crank pulley is worn/faulty should i be able to feel play when the engine is cold or do I need it to be warm to test? From what I see though I don't need to mess with the sump do I - the pulley is just there at the front of the engine is it not?

b9boy said:

OK - I'll give that a check over today hopefully. Since you mentioned it I've been doing some research into this and I do have some vibration north of 3K rpm which I tried to cure with new engine mounts but it didn't fully go away so perhaps this could be the cause? If the crank pulley is worn/faulty should i be able to feel play when the engine is cold or do I need it to be warm to test? From what I see though I don't need to mess with the sump do I - the pulley is just there at the front of the engine is it not?

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As usual I explained myself wrong, I was trying to work out what could shave off bits of alloy, my thinking was possible crankshft moving fore and aft, so either the crank is doing the shaving or the crank thrust washers are the shavings, so by levering the crank back and forth you can see if the movement is excessive, just an idea and possibly totally off track.

Crank pulleys do fail, more so on modern stuff, but I dont think this is your issue.

lynall said:

As usual I explained myself wrong, I was trying to work out what could shave off bits of alloy, my thinking was possible crankshft moving fore and aft, so either the crank is doing the shaving or the crank thrust washers are the shavings, so by levering the crank back and forth you can see if the movement is excessive, just an idea and possibly totally off track.

Crank pulleys do fail, more so on modern stuff, but I dont think this is your issue.

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Ah OK. I did just do this before seeing your reply.




Excuse the video it's not easy trying to operate a phone, a torch and a pry bar all at the same time! There is some movement in the pulley itself but none on the metal housing at the front of it. Presume this is normal movement is it?

If it is springing back both ways then that is just the rubber part moving and is quite normal.
If it is a manual another way is to watch the pulley as someone operates the clutch pedal, engine switched off.

lynall said:

If it is springing back both ways then that is just the rubber part moving and is quite normal.
If it is a manual another way is to watch the pulley as someone operates the clutch pedal, engine switched off.

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Yeah it moves both ways. Although I don't know what Im doing it felt 'normal' when I was prying at it i.e. instinct told me that it was moving as it should.

I've just done the clutch pedal test as you've described and there is no movement on the pulley. Can I ask though why there would be and how depressing the clutch would have any bearing on the lower pulley movement?

There are thrust washers to limit side movements in the crankshaft, and act as a bearing when disengagement or the clutch

So the lack of movement is a good thing?

b9boy said:

So the lack of movement is a good thing?

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Yes its a very good thing

Iirc this used to be a common issue on the p38 with manual trans as the cars bmw engine was only ever designed for an auto box?

That's good news then. It sounds like we might be OK to take the car on holiday then on Monday? I was just concerned about causing damage due to something obvious but it seems like it could just be one of those things? I'll give it a run and when we are back in a week or so drop the oil and see if we have any extra metal. If we don't then I'll do another test oil change fairly soon after. I just don't understand why all of a sudden the 'issue' has appeared but if it buggers off as quickly as it appeared then all will be well.