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JLR being chased for diesel emission claims

Discussion in 'General Land Rover Forum' started by v8250, Mar 31, 2021.

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  1. v8250

    v8250 Well-Known Member

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  2. Shedload

    Shedload Member

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    That's interesting. JLR where quick to point out that they did not do this as soon as the VW scandal emerged.
    In the solicitors blurb it says the cars produce more pollution in the real world rather than under test conditions.
    I wonder is this a 'cheat' or just like MPG figures ? They never recreate test figures in the real world.
    I hope it isn't true as it could do enormous damage to the company.
     
  3. v8250

    v8250 Well-Known Member

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    This. And JLR are financially stuffed...hardly a pot to **** in. But, if they've been cooking the mpg/emission books they deserve being brought to justice. Potential job losses aside, they're such an arrogant company/produce such crap product they deserve a good kicking.
     
  4. saxavordian

    saxavordian Well-Known Member

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    Is this across the board or certain vehicle mainly Evoques, hopefully Evoques, Just Evoques, or similar vehicles I dare not mention oh sod it Evoques.;):p:p:p
    Judge-Dredd-video-game-2000-AD-Rebellion-996916.jpg
     
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  5. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

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    MPG is not a 'cheat' in my opinion, it's just manipulation of the figures, which every vehicle manufacturer has done, since the dawn of the motor vehicle itself.
    As all manufacturers do MPG testing under the same rules, all vehicles can be compared directly with each other.

    As long as MPG testing is done within the rules, and the buyer is fully aware that the figures quoted MPG are in "best case test conditions", then what's the issue?

    What VW and Vauxhall did, was something very different than simply fibbing over MPG.

    They had programming in the ECM, which detected when the vehicle was on a rolling road emission test rig, and altered it's running parameters to make it less polluting.
    In the UK, we have a simple smoke test for diesels so it wasn't even relevant to owner's here, as the car passed its MOT just fine.
    However in those countries which do rolling road test for emissions output, the vehicle was greener when tested, than it was when on the road.

    I still can't see an issue with it myself, as we all know diesel engines are dirty things anyway.
    When in 'clean test mode' or 'cheat mode' the engine is less powerful, less responsive, and potentially worse on fuel, than when it's in 'normal driving mode', when it's powerful, responsive and economical.

    There's loads of legal firms now getting on the bandwagon, asking people to come forward to claim compensation, but my question is, claim compensation for what?
    Claim against VW or Vauxhall for having a powerful, responsive and economical diesel? Its just people trying to make money at the vehicle manufacturers expense in my opinion, nothing more.

    Sure if a manufacturer deliberately rigs the vehicle test software to cheat a country's emissions rules, then of course the country in question could make a claim under it's own clean air rules, particularly if the cheat means the vehicle would be subjected to lower emissions taxes for that market place.

    However I don't see that individual owner's of such vehicles should be able to claim against the manufacturer, as the owner as in individual wasn't effected by the cheat.

    I've personally had 2 new vehicles from VW and Vauxhall, both now have been shown to have such 'cheat' software installed, and I'll definitely not be making a claim, as in my opinion, there's nothing for me to put a claim in for.
     
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  6. Shedload

    Shedload Member

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    I agree with most of what Nodge says but to say " as we all know diesel engines are dirty things anyway. " Is way off the mark for modern diesels, many are now cleaner than equivalent petrol's.
     
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  7. Shedload

    Shedload Member

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    Could this be why the Evoque was their best seller for years and until recently the most economical.
    Nah, don't think so ;)
     
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  8. saxavordian

    saxavordian Well-Known Member

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    I'm interested to see why diesel is dirtier fuel considering this has been part of the smog period. Not forgetting Coal contribution then for industries homes shipping. Or the effect of removing coal causing the diesel to filter through were this may have been suppressed. Places like Liverpool Manchester London and Birmingham suffer with the bowl effect and no doubt industrial places in scotland cymru and Northern Ireland. They do say since the Smog element was removed Liverpool Birmingham accent has become softer instead of nasal. London on the other hand is pidgeon English;)
     
  9. lynall

    lynall Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Sadly like most things it is not as simple as that, yes Euro6 diesels are clean super clean in fact, but the particles are apparently now so small they are appearing in the food chain.
    We have trucks at work with 1 million K on the clock and the tailpipes are spotless, but as I said above that is because the particles are so small they are not visible to the human eye.
    What or if anything super small burnt/unburnt diesel particles really mean to us I have no idea?

    Old pic taken 4 yrs ago, but they are still as clean, just a bit more rusty

    Screen Shot 2021-03-31 at 14.05.12.png
     
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  10. MJI

    MJI Well-Known Member

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    Appear to be ambulance chasers
     
  11. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

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    I think it depends on you're own definitely of clean.

    A petrol engine burns as cleanly as a gas engine, but a diesel produces Ultra Fine Particulates (UFPs), which definitely aren't clean, or good for humans, or any other air breathing animal.
    No amount of DPFs or the addition DEF will stop the production of UFPs being produced completely, but they do reduce the size of the articulates, which is apparently even worse than large soot particules.

    Petrol being a volatile liquid, readily forms a gas, and this is how it's burned, so it's inherently free of UFPs.

    CO2 production is per KWh is a different form of pollution, and a diesel does produce less CO2 than an equivalent output petrol engine.

    But as far as cleanliness goes, they're as different as chalk and cheese, especially older EU4 and earlier diesels.
     
  12. lynall

    lynall Well-Known Member Full Member

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    As I understand it with the increase in the uptake of petrol vehicles on the road the overall CO2 levels have risen?
     
  13. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

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    CO2 levels rise globally, year on year.
    I don't think it's down to any one factor, but there is a steady rise.

    The more we move over to renewable energy sources, and electric cars, vans, buses and so on, the levels will start to drop. However it's not going to happen overnight, as developing countries are producing more CO2, and can't afford cleaner alternatives.
     
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  14. flat

    flat Well-Known Member

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    Is this basically just the new version of PPI claims?

    I guess now PPI claims have ended the lawyers from the ‘no win, no fee’ brigade haven’t got anything to do??
     
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  15. Hippo

    Hippo Lord Hippo

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    From what I see they're investigating a potential claim. Asking you to enter yer details in the event there is a claim. Asking you to sign up to dedicate your chance of a claim, if one exists, to be carried out by them. They also list how much of said claim they want as a percentage if they win on your behalf.

    At no point have they or anyone else proven LR is cheating or has cheated.

    They ask if you have received a recall letter for emissions. More fishing?

    They also refer to 'cheat device' which annoys me. It's not a device. It's a section of software that reads... "if the engine revs are about 2500 and my wheels ain't turning and it's been like that for x amount of time, then burn fuel differently untill the revs drop to tickover". Under those circumstances the car would guess it's being tested.

    I put my reg plate in and it's a potential for a claim. Also some others close to it and it looks like they're just collecting owner details of any LR product.
     
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  16. lynall

    lynall Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I cannot believe they have not started on the PCP lot yet!
     
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  17. flat

    flat Well-Known Member

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    I reckon it’s just chancers hoping to prey on people’s greed.

    I just put my plate in for my 1991 defender and I might be able to claim!! I am going to be rich!!!

    5FA0083A-4AAD-4899-95B0-FEE7673FB419.jpeg

    strange though, I wonder where my ecu and cheat device are hidden :confused:
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2021
  18. Colthebrummie

    Colthebrummie Well-Known Member

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    I just put my plate in for my 1991 defender and I might be able to claim!! I am going to be rich!

    No, but you could help to make a lawyer even richer.

    Col
     
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  19. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

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    My question is, claim compensation for what? Polluting the neighbours? :confused:
    That bugged my when VW initially made the headlines. It's not a device, it's simply a software routine.

    The wife's VW Eos is a 2009 TDi, and will definitely have been made with this software, and am I bothered, no.:D
     
  20. Hippo

    Hippo Lord Hippo

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    From what I understand about this... the cases are being raised under the Consumer Protection for Unfair Trading Act 2008. The act protects buyers from unfair trading practices where a seller may mislead the buyer intentionally or leave out vital information they should have been given. The buyer will have bought on the basis of taking into account the info given to them (at the time of sale) on the spec of the vehicle, including the emissions. In theory they may have made the decision not to buy said vehicle if they had of known the truth of it being less efficient than the figures given. You can claim up to 100% of the purchase price as a deterrent to manufacturers to take the act seriously.

    So you're not claiming because you have had a financial loss due to the purchase, which is what most consumer law provides a path for. On this occasion you're claiming back some or all of the purchase price because you were misled or deceived by the spec of the car when buying it.
     
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