=?iso-8859-1?q?2.5_NAD_rebuild_-_=A32000!?=

All,
Some advice if I may, I recently had major problems with my 1986 2.5
NAD which involved replacing all 4 pistons. Sadly my repair did not fix
the vehicle, and I ended up taking it to a local mechanic who, after
removing the engine and stripping it down, discovered that an oil feed
pipe on cylinder 4 was missing, causing it to run dry and lose
compression. He informed me that a complete rebuild would be necessary,
which I agreed to, and gave me a verbal estimate of between £600 and
£800. I also asked for him to change the clutch, which he agreed to
do. Imagine my surprse, when towards the end of the rebuild the price
had risen to approx £1500 and 4 days later just over £2000!

So my first question, what would be an 'average' price for this job?

The bores did not need to be rebored, but he decided that the new
pistons I had bought from Beamends were 'substandard' and he had
replaced them, and charged me £65 per piston for the privilage! In
fact all his spares that he had fitted seem to be double and sometimes
almost triple the price from Beamends or John Craddocks, for example, a
cam pulley, £65.56, £26.73 from Beamends, cam belt £36.53, again
only £8.80 from John Craddocks

So my second question, is this amount of markup on spare parts normall?

Third question, what the hell should I do about it all? He still has
the vehicle, and so far I have only paid £400, and I'm not sure what
to do now. £2000! I could have bought another '86 110 for that...

Thanks in advance

"Smudge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
All,
Some advice if I may, I recently had major problems with my 1986 2.5
NAD which involved replacing all 4 pistons. Sadly my repair did not fix
the vehicle, and I ended up taking it to a local mechanic who, after
removing the engine and stripping it down, discovered that an oil feed
pipe on cylinder 4 was missing, causing it to run dry and lose
compression. He informed me that a complete rebuild would be necessary,
which I agreed to, and gave me a verbal estimate of between £600 and
£800. I also asked for him to change the clutch, which he agreed to
do. Imagine my surprse, when towards the end of the rebuild the price
had risen to approx £1500 and 4 days later just over £2000!

So my first question, what would be an 'average' price for this job?

The bores did not need to be rebored, but he decided that the new
pistons I had bought from Beamends were 'substandard' and he had
replaced them, and charged me £65 per piston for the privilage! In
fact all his spares that he had fitted seem to be double and sometimes
almost triple the price from Beamends or John Craddocks, for example, a
cam pulley, £65.56, £26.73 from Beamends, cam belt £36.53, again
only £8.80 from John Craddocks

So my second question, is this amount of markup on spare parts normall?

Third question, what the hell should I do about it all? He still has
the vehicle, and so far I have only paid £400, and I'm not sure what
to do now. £2000! I could have bought another '86 110 for that...

Thanks in advance

**** me silly!! It's likely the vehicle it's from isnt worth that! I would
tell him he is taking the **** & you reject his over the top costs. Did he
inform you at any time of high costs etc? Ask to see the invoices for the
bits he 'bought' could be a big scam mate.

If he ****ed me over to that degree, i would make him a reasonable offer &
if he refused i would simply go round with some mates & take back the car,
giving him what he said was his top end 'estimate' I would NEVER pay that
for maybe he knows you are likely to just say keep it etc? Only a real ****
would have you spend 2k on a car worth less than that ffs.

Worth seeing a solicitor mate i fear.

You have been shafted, good & proper by the sound of it. I would also talk
to the Police if he wont hand it back etc.

****s like this give most a bad name.

Smudge wrote:
> All,
> Some advice if I may, I recently had major problems with my 1986 2.5
> NAD which involved replacing all 4 pistons. Sadly my repair did not fix
> the vehicle, and I ended up taking it to a local mechanic who, after
> removing the engine and stripping it down, discovered that an oil feed
> pipe on cylinder 4 was missing, causing it to run dry and lose
> compression. He informed me that a complete rebuild would be necessary,
> which I agreed to, and gave me a verbal estimate of between £600 and
> £800. I also asked for him to change the clutch, which he agreed to
> do. Imagine my surprse, when towards the end of the rebuild the price
> had risen to approx £1500 and 4 days later just over £2000!
>
> So my first question, what would be an 'average' price for this job?
>
> The bores did not need to be rebored, but he decided that the new
> pistons I had bought from Beamends were 'substandard' and he had
> replaced them, and charged me £65 per piston for the privilage! In
> fact all his spares that he had fitted seem to be double and sometimes
> almost triple the price from Beamends or John Craddocks, for example, a
> cam pulley, £65.56, £26.73 from Beamends, cam belt £36.53, again
> only £8.80 from John Craddocks
>
> So my second question, is this amount of markup on spare parts normall?
>
> Third question, what the hell should I do about it all? He still has
> the vehicle, and so far I have only paid £400, and I'm not sure what
> to do now. £2000! I could have bought another '86 110 for that...
>
> Thanks in advance
>

OUCH!

Three things cross my mind initially. Firstly, having given you an
estimate of £800, which you accepted and gave him the instruction to
proceed, you have a verbal contract. This has the same weight in law as
a written one - but is harder to prove. Secondly, when he realised the
price was going to be much higher than the estimate I would have
expected him to call and discuss it with you. Did he?

Finally, on the price of parts: I would expect a competent mechanic to
have a trade account somewhere which would allow him to buy at
discounted prices and invoice to you at something like the price you
would have paid over the counter. Having said that, in industry mark-ups
of more than 300% are not uncommon - but this ain't industry. I would,
however, expect him to be able to justify those prices.

Perhaps Richard would comment on the standard of his products?

HTH

--
Regards

Steve G

"SteveG" <_@_._> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Smudge wrote:
> All,
> Some advice if I may, I recently had major problems with my 1986 2.5
> NAD which involved replacing all 4 pistons. Sadly my repair did not fix
> the vehicle, and I ended up taking it to a local mechanic who, after
> removing the engine and stripping it down, discovered that an oil feed
> pipe on cylinder 4 was missing, causing it to run dry and lose
> compression. He informed me that a complete rebuild would be necessary,
> which I agreed to, and gave me a verbal estimate of between £600 and
> £800. I also asked for him to change the clutch, which he agreed to
> do. Imagine my surprse, when towards the end of the rebuild the price
> had risen to approx £1500 and 4 days later just over £2000!
>
> So my first question, what would be an 'average' price for this job?
>
> The bores did not need to be rebored, but he decided that the new
> pistons I had bought from Beamends were 'substandard' and he had
> replaced them, and charged me £65 per piston for the privilage! In
> fact all his spares that he had fitted seem to be double and sometimes
> almost triple the price from Beamends or John Craddocks, for example, a
> cam pulley, £65.56, £26.73 from Beamends, cam belt £36.53, again
> only £8.80 from John Craddocks
>
> So my second question, is this amount of markup on spare parts normall?
>
> Third question, what the hell should I do about it all? He still has
> the vehicle, and so far I have only paid £400, and I'm not sure what
> to do now. £2000! I could have bought another '86 110 for that...
>
> Thanks in advance
>

OUCH!

Three things cross my mind initially. Firstly, having given you an
estimate of £800, which you accepted and gave him the instruction to
proceed, you have a verbal contract. This has the same weight in law as
a written one - but is harder to prove. Secondly, when he realised the
price was going to be much higher than the estimate I would have
expected him to call and discuss it with you. Did he?

Finally, on the price of parts: I would expect a competent mechanic to
have a trade account somewhere which would allow him to buy at
discounted prices and invoice to you at something like the price you
would have paid over the counter. Having said that, in industry mark-ups
of more than 300% are not uncommon - but this ain't industry. I would,
however, expect him to be able to justify those prices.

Perhaps Richard would comment on the standard of his products?

HTH

The blokes been ripped off fair & square, there is no way a simple rebuild
(no bore out etc) would cost that on a V8 with double the number of pistons
ffs. No crank, no camshaft.

Utter daylight robbery.

I would ask for a VERY detailed invoice & rip it to bits.

--
Regards

Steve G

On 16 Sep 2006 11:53:18 -0700, Smudge wrote:

> ... gave me a verbal estimate of between £600 and £800. I also asked
> for him to change the clutch, which he agreed to do.

Included in the 6 to 800?

> Imagine my surprse, when towards the end of the rebuild the price
> had risen to approx £1500 and 4 days later just over £2000!

Had you been informed of these rising costs? Your contract (in english
law you can form a contract verbally) is for £600 to £800, if the costs
rise substantionally you should have been asked for further approval
before any costs were incured. If not I say you are within your rights to
reject the rise and have the vechicle put back to how it was (at his
cost) or come to an agreement on the amount of the final bill.

Bear in mind IANAL.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"Dave Liquorice" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On 16 Sep 2006 11:53:18 -0700, Smudge wrote:

> ... gave me a verbal estimate of between £600 and £800. I also asked
> for him to change the clutch, which he agreed to do.

Included in the 6 to 800?

> Imagine my surprse, when towards the end of the rebuild the price
> had risen to approx £1500 and 4 days later just over £2000!

Had you been informed of these rising costs? Your contract (in english
law you can form a contract verbally) is for £600 to £800, if the costs
rise substantionally you should have been asked for further approval
before any costs were incured. If not I say you are within your rights to
reject the rise and have the vechicle put back to how it was (at his
cost) or come to an agreement on the amount of the final bill.

Bear in mind IANAL.



Is it just me but, where the hell can he get 2k from????

"Smudge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
All,
Some advice if I may, I recently had major problems with my 1986 2.5

I would go straight to the local trading standards department, chances are
you're not the first he's taken for a mug and they have him marked.

Greg

"Nige" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Dave Liquorice" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> On 16 Sep 2006 11:53:18 -0700, Smudge wrote:
>
> > ... gave me a verbal estimate of between £600 and £800. I also asked
> > for him to change the clutch, which he agreed to do.
>

I always used to try to 'quote' an accurate figure and adhere to it if the
job was straightforward, but if it was an unknown quantity where there could
be hidden costs then an estimate which is *only* an estimate should be given
as in this case. I used to reckon an estimate could vary by about 25% either
way but even then the customer should be notified before commencement of any
extra work, it is only fair trading practice. If he estimated about £700
then he should have kept between £525 and £875. Now if the customer
supplies his own parts then you must use them unless they are not the
correct ones, it doesn't matter if you consider them inferior or if they
fail, that will be a warranty claim between him and his supplier, you can
only try to persuade him to use original parts and if he won't you can
always refuse to do the job. As far as I can see it's only a matter of head
and sump off, not a massive job, and I think it was only the TD that had the
extra oil feeds anyway, but I may be wrong.

> Included in the 6 to 800?
>
> > Imagine my surprse, when towards the end of the rebuild the price
> > had risen to approx £1500 and 4 days later just over £2000!
>
> Had you been informed of these rising costs? Your contract (in english
> law you can form a contract verbally) is for £600 to £800, if the costs
> rise substantionally you should have been asked for further approval
> before any costs were incured. If not I say you are within your rights to
> reject the rise and have the vechicle put back to how it was (at his
> cost) or come to an agreement on the amount of the final bill.
>
> Bear in mind IANAL.
>
>
>
> Is it just me but, where the hell can he get 2k from????
>
>
>

On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 21:16:08 +0100, Nige wrote:

> Is it just me but, where the hell can he get 2k from????

Thin air like the majority of prices quoted. As a seller you charge what
the market will stand.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"Dave Liquorice" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 21:16:08 +0100, Nige wrote:
>
>> Is it just me but, where the hell can he get 2k from????
>
> Thin air like the majority of prices quoted. As a seller you charge what
> the market will stand.

If only it where that way! To be honest, the market would NEVER stand 2k for
that job.

"Greg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Smudge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> All,
> Some advice if I may, I recently had major problems with my 1986 2.5
>
> I would go straight to the local trading standards department, chances are
> you're not the first he's taken for a mug and they have him marked.
>
> Greg
>
>
Had my 300 tdi rebuilt by a local engine bod it had a re bore, new
pistons,and crank re ground for £700 there was no labour for removal or
refitting though. I seem to recall that you have the right to your car even
if the bill has not been paid as it is your car and him keeping it would be
theft! Go talk to him in a reasonable way and if he doesnt play ball call
police and trading standards.

Icky

In message <[email protected]>
"Smudge" <[email protected]> wrote:

> All,
> Some advice if I may, I recently had major problems with my 1986 2.5
> NAD which involved replacing all 4 pistons. Sadly my repair did not fix
> the vehicle, and I ended up taking it to a local mechanic who, after
> removing the engine and stripping it down, discovered that an oil feed
> pipe on cylinder 4 was missing, causing it to run dry and lose
> compression. He informed me that a complete rebuild would be necessary,
> which I agreed to, and gave me a verbal estimate of between £600 and
> £800. I also asked for him to change the clutch, which he agreed to
> do. Imagine my surprse, when towards the end of the rebuild the price
> had risen to approx £1500 and 4 days later just over £2000!
>
> So my first question, what would be an 'average' price for this job?
>
> The bores did not need to be rebored, but he decided that the new
> pistons I had bought from Beamends were 'substandard' and he had
> replaced them, and charged me £65 per piston for the privilage! In
> fact all his spares that he had fitted seem to be double and sometimes
> almost triple the price from Beamends or John Craddocks, for example, a
> cam pulley, £65.56, £26.73 from Beamends, cam belt £36.53, again
> only £8.80 from John Craddocks

Since the pistons were AE, though in a Britpart box, I'm somewhat
surprised that they are "substandard", as they were, I'm pretty sure,
OEM suppliers to LR - they certainly have an excellen reputation.

>
> So my second question, is this amount of markup on spare parts normall?
>

The other prices are are pretty much Genuine Parts prices, so
presumably he would be able to show you suitably decorated boxes,
or an invoice? Having said that though, he is free to charge what
he likes for parts......

> Third question, what the hell should I do about it all? He still has
> the vehicle, and so far I have only paid £400, and I'm not sure what
> to do now. £2000! I could have bought another '86 110 for that...

If you think you are likely to get into a dispute, then a trip to
Citizens Advice or similar might be a good idea, to establish the
ground rules.

>
> Thanks in advance
>

Richard (sapeaking personaly)

--

www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive

On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 23:16:28 +0100, Nige wrote:

>>> Is it just me but, where the hell can he get 2k from????
>>
>> Thin air like the majority of prices quoted. As a seller you charge
>> what the market will stand.
>
> If only it where that way! To be honest, the market would NEVER stand
> 2k for that job.

I know that and the OP knows that but there are plenty out there that
just pay bills as presented without engaging brain at all. Look at the TV
programmes about rogue this or that, if people weren't mugs such
practices couldn't exist.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"icky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:%v%Og.2772

> Had my 300 tdi rebuilt by a local engine bod it had a re bore, new
> pistons,and crank re ground for £700

The previous owner of my 109 petrol had a full recon engine fitted for about
£1200 (I have the bill), that's a short engine AND a rebuilt head, the
result seems to be a gem of an engine. So £2000 for a partial rebuild is
just ludicrous.

Greg

wow. that was pricey!

You should have posted here first!- i'd have sold you my 2.5 NAD
(which I rebuilt 18 months ago and has also had all reconned
ancilliaries including the fuel dissy) for much less than that and
bought myself a tdi or v8 to replace it!

>Third question, what the hell should I do about it all? He still has
>the vehicle, and so far I have only paid £400, and I'm not sure what
>to do now. £2000! I could have bought another '86 110 for that...


Turner Engineering price for a short block is 1,200 + vat supply only.

Did he do ant thing to the head or supply new injectors etc?
--
Marc Draper

You should be glad you don't own a Shogun 2.8. A guy at my work has just
coughed up a little over £3K, yes £3K for, get this.....Head gasket
replacement. He went on holiday with the instructions to the garage to do
the necessary repairs., Don't rush it, I want a good job done! - famous last
words!!

Breakdown of costs
Labour £2200 (40 hours)
Mech Parts £425
Oil, antifreeze, water (YES WATER!!) £90
All plus VAT

So the vehicle was in for a week - £440 a day (£55 per hour = fair rate)
SLOW mechanic if it took a week!!!
Mech parts?? Gasket kit - £60 (cheaper on Ebay) - thermostat £5 = almost
1000 percent markup!!!
Oil - take Castrol's best = £40 a gallon (probably used syrup instead) and
antifreeze £10 a gallon makes the WATER costing at LEAST £40!!!

And to top it all, it lasted 3 days and overheated again!.The AA report
stated several missing nuts & washers from various places around the head
and rockers, loose exhaust clamp, silicone used for repairing the ORIGINAL
gasket on the stat housing! Wire not refitted to a sensor, Oil change
without a filter replacement?? i'm surprised they bothered to fit a new
stat...or did they?? According to the AA guy it didn't look like the heads
were skimmed or pressure tested. His own words "Looks like they weren't even
cleaned/prepared properly before refitting them. Bloody conmen - they don't
deserve to be in business!"
Well i can't name the garage on the outskirts of St.Helens which did the job
but i will after the court case!


Wolfie

On or around Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:34:33 GMT, [email protected] enlightened us
thusly:

>Labour £2200 (40 hours)

that's a monumental ****-take. No way it should take 40 hours to recon an
engine.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"
George Orwell (1903 - 1950) Animal Farm

it wasn't recon'd it was ONLY the head gaskets that were done!!!

Wolfie

On or around Tue, 19 Sep 2006 23:06:00 GMT, [email protected] enlightened us
thusly:

>it wasn't recon'd it was ONLY the head gaskets that were done!!!

in that case it's a whole mount rushmore of ****take, FFS, *I* can do that
inside of a day.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
In Touch: Get in touch with yourself by touching yourself.
If somebody is watching, stop touching yourself.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.