Disco 2 Isn't it ACE!?

Hi all
I've just had the estimate for replacing the 4 x front ACE pipes on my '03 D2 (which I love)...and today it comes to £423.71 + VAT (~£500) just for the pipes!!
I've been through the threads here and it appears that I have 3 options:
1) bite the bullet and pay up
2) remove the ACE (and maybe SLS?) and replace with ARB set up
3) find a cheaper source for the required pipes, other than LR OEM.

In relation to 3, has anyone had pipes made up (e.g. SS Braided) to do this job? If so, who should I ask to make them up and how much did the replacements cost?
Any advice gratefully received

@MJI

Cheers

Right...a bit of ringing around ("Sorry those pipes are LR supply only") and I've realised that I would be something of a mug to do anything other than consider option 2 (as my SLS has deflated inexplicably twice during the last couple of weeks I've realised that repairing ACE would only be storing up the next problems when SLS goes awol properly)...so I'm going back to the threads to see how that's done.

Ah, Neilly, I get your point. I've seen how @MJI waxes lyrical about his ACE, so have PM'd him direct.
Thanks

HasisD said:

Right...a bit of ringing around ("Sorry those pipes are LR supply only") and I've realised that I would be something of a mug to do anything other than consider option 2 (as my SLS has deflated inexplicably twice during the last couple of weeks I've realised that repairing ACE would only be storing up the next problems when SLS goes awol properly)...so I'm going back to the threads to see how that's done.

Click to expand...

If your rear suspension has started dropping overnight, change the air bags first as last. you probably won't need to do anything else unless you're really unfortunate. DO NOT TRY TO OVER-ANALYSE the problem, you'll only end up in knots and fry your brain.
The SLS and the ACE are totally independent systems; non-ACE vehicles can have SLS, non-SLS vehicles can have ACE. In basic terms, SLS works at the springs and ACE works at the anti-roll bars.

Brian...thank you!
I'm a research consultant...so you're right...I easily slip into over analysis.
However, after spending the afternoon pulling what little hair I have out, I've ended up at a decision.
Thinking purely in terms of cost:benefit and taking into consideration that although the engine, chassis and body of my D2 are in lovely fettle and I have an FHS...the car is still 14yrs old, and whilst I may be a researcher, I'm no mechanical engineer.
Accordingly, I'm going for the ... oh God...removal of ACE and SLS, whose kits have, in total, come to £426 (inc VAT) in parts from Island 4x4.
Two airbags alone would have been ~£120-£140 and I have no friendly hydraulic engineer that I could call on to upgrade the ACE to something like @MJI has done (I am truly envious of those skills).
I regard my vehicle's suspension as a safety-critical issue, and the old girl is also my daily driver...and I'm already missing her as she sits down the road in the garage carpark.
Accordingly, I'm hoping that cutting out the tired technical stuff now using 'recognised fixes' should get us back on the road for longer and more reliably than patching these two systems in the hope that a pump isn't next in line for failure.
Please don't now give me a whole list of conversion horror stories...I might shed a tear.
H

HasisD said:

Brian...thank you!
I'm a research consultant...so you're right...I easily slip into over analysis.
However, after spending the afternoon pulling what little hair I have out, I've ended up at a decision.
Thinking purely in terms of cost:benefit and taking into consideration that although the engine, chassis and body of my D2 are in lovely fettle and I have an FHS...the car is still 14yrs old, and whilst I may be a researcher, I'm no mechanical engineer.
Accordingly, I'm going for the ... oh God...removal of ACE and SLS, whose kits have, in total, come to £426 (inc VAT) in parts from Island 4x4.
Two airbags alone would have been ~£120-£140 and I have no friendly hydraulic engineer that I could call on to upgrade the ACE to something like @MJI has done (I am truly envious of those skills).
I regard my vehicle's suspension as a safety-critical issue, and the old girl is also my daily driver...and I'm already missing her as she sits down the road in the garage carpark.
Accordingly, I'm hoping that cutting out the tired technical stuff now using 'recognised fixes' should get us back on the road for longer and more reliably than patching these two systems in the hope that a pump isn't next in line for failure.
Please don't now give me a whole list of conversion horror stories...I might shed a tear.
H

Click to expand...

As I said, SLS and ACE are two separate systems.

My advice would be to replace the two suspension air bags. As you've already found they are about 120-140 quid a pair and replacing them is quite easy. I usually buy the parts and my friendly indie garage charges me an hour or two to fit them. The air suspension is in all fairness, a pretty good system.
I don't have ACE on mine, but @MJI is the master at replacing the LR pipes with hydraulic lines from an "ordinary" hydraulics supplier who can make up pipes to order. He also knows where you can get the valve block re-engineered to take new pipes.

Thanks Brian...okay new air bags get a try

http://www.thed2boysclub.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3452

Block needs to be drilled and countersunk. Look for a good local small engineer, worth getting a block from Ebay and swapping them over

Outer holes countersunk to their depth and 25mm. (for the 6 of (a) )
Inner holes to be tapped 1/4" BSP

Hoses are 4 x as follows

1990mm rear
1940mm rear
2m (mine are too long at 2.5m)
2m
1/4" BSP Dowty
1/4" BSP male/female coupler (a)
1/4" BSP Dowty
1/4" BSP male/female Swivel
1/4" BSP male end hose to 14mm banjo
2 ACE ram washer from Land Rover
1 ACE ram nut from Land Rover

Swivel is done last as otherwise you cannot assemble

Pump ones depend on corrosion for length mine were 900mm to just to the rear of the turrets

1/4" BSP Dowty
1/4" BSP male/female coupler (a)
1/4" BSP Dowty
1/4" BSP end onto 3/8" BSP hose 3/8" BSP any gender end
3/8" BSP the other gender compression fitting onto 3/8" BSP metal pipe (Discovery pump pipe)

I used http://www.redlinehydraulics.com/ for the hoses

Own block I used SI-CAN Worcester but they took 3 or 4 weeks to do it (hence spare block advice)

LR bits and CCF I used https://www.mm-4x4.com/


Copied from D2BC with corrections

block to rear ram

All BSP are parallel

Ram hose makeup
Tap block 1/4" BSP
1/4" BSP Dowty washer
1/4" BSP female - male
1/4" BSP Dowty washer
1/4" BSP swivel
1/4" BSP male end
1/4" BSP hose
1/4" BSP to 14mm banjo
2 x LR ACE ram Dowty washers, 1 x LR ACE ram nut

About 1.8m for rear and 2m for front

Pump around 900mm
Tap block 1/4" BSP
1/4" BSP Dowty washer
1/4" BSP female - male
1/4" BSP Dowty washer
1/4" BSP male to 3/8" BSP hose
3/8" BSP hose
3/8" BSP male or female end
3/8" BSP female or male to 3/8" O/D metal pipe compression fitting

Order 8 washers and 4 nuts from a LR specialist
Hoses from a friendly hydraulic place I used a local called Redline

Loads on Ebay and modded blocks are worth over £100

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282631459791
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252274902094
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/332368566988
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172355971141

HasisD said:

Thanks @MJI I'm seriously tempted, but I just haven't got the time or confidence to do this myself and I need the car back asap as my DD. Hence ultimate decision must be (for me) an ACE conversion. Thanks to Brian I'm keeping SLS, as a check of past receipts shows that one bag [!!] was replaced at ~95k ish...so I imagine that 2xnew will be a quick fix (and I do love my SLS).

Click to expand...

It is not actually a difficult job, just need to be careful.

SLS and no ACE can be odd from some accounts. Oh and repairing costs less than downgrading.

I will let you know that the worst job I had was changing drop links. They are an absolute nightmare to change, as I did a full check over I replaced mine, took roughly an hour each.

Dropping off the old block and swapping the rear pair of pipes is about an hour as is.

Most work was working out how to route the front ram pair.

I kept mine mobile by getting an Ebay aquired block converting and getting absolutely everything prepared before hand.

If I had not replaced the rear ARB (because I found brand new for £60) and the drop links, I reckon 5 or 6 hours for the rest.

Worst ACE jobs are.

1) Unbolting pipes from inside engine compartment, ended up using a teenager for that.
2) Removing wiring from pressure sender.

LR parts about £10
Pipes about £110
Machining £60

My swapped in block paid for itself when sold.

Downgrading you have to

Remove both ARBs.
Remove ACE RAM pipes.
Remove block or seal ports.
Deal with rusty drop links.
Swap out pump on engine with a pulley, and move ACE pump pipes.

Compared to that dropping out the ACE block, removing the RAM pipes and placing flexible hoses in instead with a pre modified block, and cutting and fitting compression fitted pipes is less work.

I did make more work with droplinks and rear ARB.

As to connecting, remove one, replace one, or write on block what they are.

HasisD said:

Thanks @MJI I'm seriously tempted, but I just haven't got the time or confidence to do this myself and I need the car back asap as my DD. Hence ultimate decision must be (for me) an ACE conversion. Thanks to Brian I'm keeping SLS, as a check of past receipts shows that one bag [!!] was replaced at ~95k ish...so I imagine that 2xnew will be a quick fix (and I do love my SLS).

Click to expand...

In my opinion changing just one air bag is a false economy; if one bag has started to deteriorate then the other one won't be far behind. And don't expect new bags to last the "life of the vehicle". They are just rubber tubes filled with compressed air, and you don't expect the other air filled rubber tubes (tyres) to last the life of the vehicle. Make sure that there are two new clips included with each air-bag, there have been some reports of these clips missing on delivery.
My Disco is on air without ACE and I've not found any bad handling. It could be a problem with exactly what people do to remove the ACE, but provided you're going to fit properly manufactured static anti-roll bars instead of the rams then there shouldn't be any problems.
Having said that, replacing the pipes and repairing the system might be a more cost effective way to proceed, as MJI has suggested.

brian47 said:

My Disco is on air without ACE

Click to expand...

As standard? Mine's non ACE but been converted to coils. I've had a look and all i need are the air springs and ride height sensors. Compressor and air lines are still present. Seriously tempted to fit the parts I need and see if it works.

1988smithy said:

As standard? Mine's non ACE but been converted to coils. I've had a look and all i need are the air springs and ride height sensors. Compressor and air lines are still present. Seriously tempted to fit the parts I need and see if it works.

Click to expand...

Yes, air suspension and static anti-roll bars as supplied.
I believe that being a seven seat vehicle, there was something about European regulations that seven seaters should be fitted with air springing. Whether or not the Active Cornering Enhancement (ACE) was fitted depended on the model.
Many owners replaced the windy-springs with coils because they encountered troubles and they weren't inclined to sort out the system so they just ripped it off and fitted coils.
Because the system seemed "unusual" some people felt it was the "work of the devil" and should be ripped off at the earliest opportunity and buried in the deepest hole they could find, accompanied by the ACE system. However, once you realise that they are in fact separate systems, understanding how they work, and therefore why they can stop working becomes easier.
To reinstate the air system, I would be inclined to replace both ride height sensors as well as the air bags, in addition to checking over the compressor unit and valves. You will need a compatible code reader to re-activate and probably recalibrate the system.

https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/disco-ii-air-suspension-%C2%96-the-definitive-guide.171995/#post-3987603

Great stuff cheers @brian47

I forgot that downgrading also involves it being turned off.

Do you want me to sort out the components for your?

MJI said:

I forgot that downgrading also involves it being turned off.

Do you want me to sort out the components for your?

Click to expand...

Me or OP?

1988smithy said:

Me or OP?

Click to expand...

However it was struggling.

MJI said:

However it was struggling.

Click to expand...

Whoever not however