Intermittent Starter - inhibit switch?

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kooky_guy

kooky_guy

Well-Known Member
Posts
2,410
Location
Sandhurst, Berkshire
Hi All,

I have done a search but it's not been very conclusive.

Just recently, the starter has been playing up. Basically, turn the key and the lights come on and nothing else happens - no click or anything.

I thought originally it might be the inhibit switch because if I moved the lever from P to N, it would work, but this morning, I had to move the lever a few times before it kicked in. This may still be a red herring, but it's the best I've got at the moment.

My question is this: Is the inhibit function provided by the XY switch, or is there a different switch actually at the lever that controls this? Couldn't find anything specific in the quick look in Rave that I've managed.

My concern is that the gear selector lights indicate correctly implying that I'm barking up the wrong tree with this.

Could it just be the relay is sticking? Starter was new a couple of months ago, but I have been to Salisbury Plain since...
 
There is a relay for the starter in the underbonnet fuse box is there not? Also I think, but can't remember, that there is a micro switch on the gear lever housing for neutral and park sensing. It will be in RAVE.
 
Had a quick fiddle with this and found that the battery earth clamp was loose - doesn't fit the battery post properly. It's better when it's whacked down as far as it will go, but still a bit odd.

Anyway, although the starter always seems to work now there is still sometimes a delay before it engages. I turn the key to the start position and nothing happens for sometimes a couple of seconds until the starter suddenly springs to life.

Any thoughts? It's a little disconcerting.
 
kooky_guy said:
Had a quick fiddle with this and found that the battery earth clamp was loose - doesn't fit the battery post properly. It's better when it's whacked down as far as it will go, but still a bit odd.

Anyway, although the starter always seems to work now there is still sometimes a delay before it engages. I turn the key to the start position and nothing happens for sometimes a couple of seconds until the starter suddenly springs to life.

Any thoughts? It's a little disconcerting.
Click to expand...

Bad battery connection heating up until it makes a better contact:eek:
 
Pull the starter relay and push it back in and out a few times. If that does not do the trick disconnect battery and unbolt fuse box. Do the same to the plugs under that. Have a look for any dirty contacts and clean them.
 
Great. Just had to go out for an appointment and it won't turn over at all now no matter what I do. It just goes 'clunk' but with no dimming of the panel lights.

Can I just confirm the starter relay is RL15?
 
Duh, starter relay is RL16. Must be what the big SM on it means!

ok, did all that you suggested Wammers - no problems found. All contacts look clean as a whistle. Undid and redid the main power connection to the starter itself and it now seems to be working again every time. Not even a delay this time. Hmm.

I'm not exactly filled with confidence though!
 
kooky_guy said:
Duh, starter relay is RL16. Must be what the big SM on it means!

ok, did all that you suggested Wammers - no problems found. All contacts look clean as a whistle. Undid and redid the main power connection to the starter itself and it now seems to be working again every time. Not even a delay this time. Hmm.

I'm not exactly filled with confidence though!
Click to expand...

If it goes clunk and it is the starter solenoid being pulled in, i would suggest that the starter main connector bar within the solenoid is not contacting properly. You have what is known as a pre engaged starter, solenoid pulls in and through a lever engages bendix with ring gear, at the same time at the end of it's travel a copper bar is pushed against two contact points in the starter to engage the electrical circuit. This is quite common on old failing starters, as the contacts burn and form a crust and the bar gets bent, but i think you said this was a newish one. That should not be happening
 
Was trying to find the receipt for it earlier but not found it yet. Grr.

It was a RIGHT bugger to fit as well as the top thread had previously been stripped and a nut put on but there is no access for a spanner or socket.

Ah well, at least I know what to expect this time. I'll see how it goes. Cheers Wammers.
 
Ok, same problem this morning.

Just a clunk each time I turned the key with no dimming of the panel lights.

Was just about to give up but gave it one last try and it turned over perfectly and started. Tried it again when I got to work and it turns over every time.

I can't go on like this though - is there a conclusive way to prove it is the starter at fault? I can just see the supplier being difficult about it, given that I fitted it myself.

Even when it's working, it's not spinning as happily as it did when it was brand new.

I found the receipt - Starter was new on 12th Dec 2011.
 
First just make sure that there are no bad connections between the starter and the battery and that the earth strap to the engine is good. Don't forget the wire can corrode inside the plastic sheath. Personally as a first step I would run an additional wire from the battery to the starter just to prove it's not that. Lots of crap Chinese starter motors about.
 
if the clunk is solenoid then it must be poor contacts in solenoid light dont dim so no power to motor or reduced power,solenoid clicks the relay, switch ,wiring is okay
 
Datatek said:
First just make sure that there are no bad connections between the starter and the battery and that the earth strap to the engine is good. Don't forget the wire can corrode inside the plastic sheath. Personally as a first step I would run an additional wire from the battery to the starter just to prove it's not that. Lots of crap Chinese starter motors about.
Click to expand...

Hi Keith,

By an additional wire from the battery to the starter, do you mean the live? Presumably this is replicating the jump lead method (which I'm still not entirely clear about - is this literally just taking a lead from the battery +ve and touching it to the large bolt on the back of the solenoid with the big thick +ve wire going to it?)

Unfortunately it was a distress purchase and I did buy the cheapest starter they had. If I'd known then what a complete b*S*d of a job it would be to change it, I would have bought the Bosch for an extra £100.

Interestingly, I think it was fiddling with the main supply cable at the weekend that fixed it (briefly) last time. The nut doesn't seem very tight, but it won't seem to do up any further - perhaps the thread is stripped. Something else to check I spose.

I wonder if it's worth trying to get the damaged hole helicoiled when it's off this time, but I don't know anything about doing it.

Not sure where the engine earth is on this either.
 
jamesmartin said:
if the clunk is solenoid then it must be poor contacts in solenoid light dont dim so no power to motor or reduced power,solenoid clicks the relay, switch ,wiring is okay
Click to expand...

Sorry, that is just not correct, a high resistance circuit to the starter will pull or partially pull the solenoid but the volt drop in the wire will not allow the starter to engage or turn. In this instance the dash lights will not dim.
It's probably the starter motor solenoid but it's a bugger to get the motor off, easier to prove the simple things first.:)
 
It's an interesting clunk - I'm more used to the clunk it makes with a flat battery where you turn the key and the gear is flung out and engages with the flywheel ring gear but there isn't enough oomph to turn the engine. This sounds very different - almost a click. It certainly sounds like it's coming from the starter.

Worryingly, this is exactly what happened to the previous starter...
 
jamesmartin said:
if its clunking solenoids hitting contacts,
Click to expand...

Sorry but again I disagree, low power to the solenoid can cause the Bendix to move forward but with insuficient power to engage, so the contacts to energise the motor never actually make. Had this recently on a Deutz powered tractor, an inhibit switch in the starter solenoid circuit had gone high resistance, got the clunk but no attempt to turn the motor, tried a new starter, just the same, bypassed the inhibit switch and bingo off it went. Should have got my meter out sooner and checked the voltage at the solenoid.
 
kooky_guy said:
Hi Keith,

By an additional wire from the battery to the starter, do you mean the live? Presumably this is replicating the jump lead method (which I'm still not entirely clear about - is this literally just taking a lead from the battery +ve and touching it to the large bolt on the back of the solenoid with the big thick +ve wire going to it?)

Unfortunately it was a distress purchase and I did buy the cheapest starter they had. If I'd known then what a complete b*S*d of a job it would be to change it, I would have bought the Bosch for an extra £100.

Interestingly, I think it was fiddling with the main supply cable at the weekend that fixed it (briefly) last time. The nut doesn't seem very tight, but it won't seem to do up any further - perhaps the thread is stripped. Something else to check I spose.

I wonder if it's worth trying to get the damaged hole helicoiled when it's off this time, but I don't know anything about doing it.

Not sure where the engine earth is on this either.
Click to expand...

Hi Guy, there is a large diameter cable from the starter motor to the battery, just try doubling up with another wire of the same or similar size, you don't have to follow the route of the original for a test, you could even use a heavy jump lead complete with croc clips as long as you remove it if the engine starts to avoid it dropping off and shorting out. Others have found this cable has failed inside the sleeve due to corrosion. Also make sure the battery terminal is good and tight. It's a quick and relatively easy way to prove a point. Also check the motor earth to the chassis.
 
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