Help, changing gearbox to manual.

  • Thread starter Chris Glen-Smith
  • Start date
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Chris Glen-Smith

Guest
Hi all, I'm a long time lurker and very occasional poster.

I've just had a rush of blood to the head and bought my first landrover
[*1], it's a hybrid, a defender 90 body on a series 3 bulkhead on a
range rover classic chassis. It has a 3.5 V8 Carb engine with LPG and
auto transmission.

The Range rover engine/auto box allows it to cruise comfortably at speed
but has that dead auto feel i.e. bugger all acceleration from
stationary/low speed. (probably conspires with the V8 to quaff fuel like
cheep beer)

Some questions:

I want to change it to a 5 sp manual, hopefully with out lowering the
gearing in top gear (i.e. I don't want to loose that high speed cruise)
Is it posible? Do I have to replace the fly wheel?, what gearboxes will
fit?, do I have to replace the transfer box along with the gearbox? etc....

I am a fan of fuel injection, I've never liked carbs and would like to
get an EFI engine. Is the EFI engine the same block? Can I get a
manifold, plenum (sp?) chamber, ECU, etc.. and bolt it on my block?

That's it for now.

Cheers


[*] my first unless you count the old S2A of my dads I fixed up and
drove to The Gambia on the 03/04 Plymouth Dakar Challenge

 

On or around Thu, 07 Apr 2005 21:10:53 GMT, Chris Glen-Smith
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>The Range rover engine/auto box allows it to cruise comfortably at speed
>but has that dead auto feel i.e. bugger all acceleration from
>stationary/low speed. (probably conspires with the V8 to quaff fuel like
>cheep beer)

Which autobox?

if it's the 4-speed, don't write it off without trying tweaking its kickdown
first... get the setup right and they go well. Try driving it at 50 mph,
and flooring the throttle - it should change down in to 2nd. If it doesn't,
the kickdown isn't set right (or less likely, isn't working internally).

I had a 3.5 V8 plus auto box combo in a 110, and it was great, once I got it
set up right.

as to which will fit, etc...

while the block is pretty much the same chances are it's a different
compression ratio from an injection one.

However, in princple, you can swap all the bits and also get the wiring loom
and ECU. In practice, you're most likely to find all that lot along of an
engine, so you might as well source the complete engine and injection gear
and swap the whole thing, then sell the carb V8 or keep it as a spare.

as to the gearbox/tbox thing - if the transfer box has a difflock position
(high-low lever also moves left-right, as well as back and fore) then it's
an LT230 transfer box and should fit with either the LT77 or R380 5-speed
manual.

If the high-low lever only goes back and forward, you have a Rangie-type
Borg warner T-box, and you'll probably want to swap it for the other sort.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
face by frightening people in the street.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
 
Hi, thanks for advice.

It's a 3 speed, if a 4 speed came along I'd try it as I it would be an
easier swap than a manual. What is the likely fuel comsumption hit does
the auto have, I've not yet had a chance to measure my mpg.

The hi/lo lever moves side to side so I guess thats an LT230.

Do you know of a web site with the ratios of the various gearboxes?

Cheers
Chris

Austin Shackles wrote:
> On or around Thu, 07 Apr 2005 21:10:53 GMT, Chris Glen-Smith
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>
>>The Range rover engine/auto box allows it to cruise comfortably at speed
>>but has that dead auto feel i.e. bugger all acceleration from
>>stationary/low speed. (probably conspires with the V8 to quaff fuel like
>>cheep beer)
>
>
> Which autobox?
>
> if it's the 4-speed, don't write it off without trying tweaking its kickdown
> first... get the setup right and they go well. Try driving it at 50 mph,
> and flooring the throttle - it should change down in to 2nd. If it doesn't,
> the kickdown isn't set right (or less likely, isn't working internally).
>
> I had a 3.5 V8 plus auto box combo in a 110, and it was great, once I got it
> set up right.
>
> as to which will fit, etc...
>
> while the block is pretty much the same chances are it's a different
> compression ratio from an injection one.
>
> However, in princple, you can swap all the bits and also get the wiring loom
> and ECU. In practice, you're most likely to find all that lot along of an
> engine, so you might as well source the complete engine and injection gear
> and swap the whole thing, then sell the carb V8 or keep it as a spare.
>
> as to the gearbox/tbox thing - if the transfer box has a difflock position
> (high-low lever also moves left-right, as well as back and fore) then it's
> an LT230 transfer box and should fit with either the LT77 or R380 5-speed
> manual.
>
> If the high-low lever only goes back and forward, you have a Rangie-type
> Borg warner T-box, and you'll probably want to swap it for the other sort.
>

 
On or around Thu, 07 Apr 2005 22:52:29 GMT, Chris Glen-Smith
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>It's a 3 speed, if a 4 speed came along I'd try it as I it would be an
>easier swap than a manual. What is the likely fuel comsumption hit does
>the auto have, I've not yet had a chance to measure my mpg.

110 with 4-speed auto on LPG used to get about 11 mpg. By comparison, the
disco with a manual box gets about 13. The disco does about 18 on petrol,
unless you're *very* careful.

both the gas systems are open loop, the disco petrol system is hotwire, but
still open loop.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Festina Lente" (Hasten slowly) Suetonius (c.70-c.140) Augustus, 25
 
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 08:06:55 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>110 with 4-speed auto on LPG used to get about 11 mpg.

Crumbs, I get better than that with Grumble...

 
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:15:55 +0100, Mother <"@ {m} @"@101fc.net>
wrote:

>On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 08:06:55 +0100, Austin Shackles
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>110 with 4-speed auto on LPG used to get about 11 mpg.
>
>Crumbs, I get better than that with Grumble...

At our local Jet station, LPG is currently 29.9p against 85.9 for
petrol. I want my Disco back!

By my reckoning you should be getting about 43 mpg by price, assuming
it still does 15mpg on gas.


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com
 
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 15:17:13 +0100, Tim Hobbs
<[email protected]> wrote:

>At our local Jet station, LPG is currently 29.9p against 85.9 for
>petrol.

Kin eck - 39.9p / L ere...

>I want my Disco back!

No problem, you do realise they appreciate in value though, don't you?

>By my reckoning you should be getting about 43 mpg by price, assuming
>it still does 15mpg on gas.

Yeah I reckon so too. Mind, I'm going to replace the leads for some
megnecors and put one of them ignition chip jobbies in too.

If only I could stop the tyre going flat every couple of weeks...
(but then, Grumble does the same with the NSF).

 
"Mother" <"@ {m} @"@101fc.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Crumbs, I get better than that with Grumble...

It's all those down hill runs, what with those extra tyres and all that...

not that I'm saying.... ;o)

Lee D
--

www.lrproject.com

Workshop photos from Landrover repairs
& other such tinkerings.
Home of Percy the Jag powered Landrover


 
On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 20:39:17 +0100, "Lee_D"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>not that I'm saying.... ;o)

The gravity of that comment will not be forgotten...

 
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 21:33:29 +0100, Mother <"@ {m} @"@101fc.net> made
me spill my meths when he wrote:

>The gravity of that comment will not be forgotten...

You have gravity as well?
--

Wayne Davies, Harrogate 07989 556213

Just another point of view...
www.4x4prejudice.org
 
On or around Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:15:55 +0100, Mother <"@ {m} @"@101fc.net>
enlightened us thusly:

>On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 08:06:55 +0100, Austin Shackles
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>110 with 4-speed auto on LPG used to get about 11 mpg.
>
>Crumbs, I get better than that with Grumble...

yebbut, Grumble has a decent engine - mine was a succession of tired 3.5s...

There's a good deal of evidence that the larger engines achieve better
results. I might one day look at a 3.9 disco, either this one or a
replacement.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
face by frightening people in the street.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
 
On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:10:06 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>There's a good deal of evidence that the larger engines achieve better
>results.

I'll vouch for that. My experience is that as the engine isn't really
being overworked, I keep the revs within reasonable boundaries. Mind,
hammering it down the M1 at 75 does tend to have an impact - but
townie use is similar to 28mpg (LPG bein half the price an all).

 
On or around Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:34:56 +0100, Mother <"@ {m} @"@101fc.net>
enlightened us thusly:

>On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:10:06 +0100, Austin Shackles
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>There's a good deal of evidence that the larger engines achieve better
>>results.
>
>I'll vouch for that. My experience is that as the engine isn't really
>being overworked, I keep the revs within reasonable boundaries. Mind,
>hammering it down the M1 at 75 does tend to have an impact - but
>townie use is similar to 28mpg (LPG bein half the price an all).

I bet if you had a 3.5 in there still, you'd notice it slurping the juice.

'tis a fact that a lot of my mileage is slow, low-gear sort of work. On
long steady runs (unless they involve motorways and high speeds) it does do
slightly better, but not a lot.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Something there is that doesn't love a wall."
Robert Frost (1874-1963)
 
On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 10:23:28 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I bet if you had a 3.5 in there still, you'd notice it slurping the juice.

Not only that, but I reckon it'd actually be quite dangerous as I'm
now used to having the power at roundabouts...

>'tis a fact that a lot of my mileage is slow, low-gear sort of work. On
>long steady runs (unless they involve motorways and high speeds) it does do
>slightly better, but not a lot.

One reason I've become something of an auto-convert is the s*dding
town stuff. Changing gears in a 101 is a pita as the threshold speeds
mean you're either between 1st and 2nd or 3rd and 4th pretty much all
the time - it's impossible to do a steady 30mph in either 3rd or 4th.

I really must try harder to remember that the Disco is manual - my
neighbours think it's very funny when I stall the engine at the end of
the road after having driven Grumble for even a short while :)

 
"Mother" <"@ {m} @"@101fc.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> One reason I've become something of an auto-convert is the s*dding
> town stuff. Changing gears in a 101 is a pita as the threshold speeds
> mean you're either between 1st and 2nd or 3rd and 4th pretty much all
> the time - it's impossible to do a steady 30mph in either 3rd or 4th.
>
> I really must try harder to remember that the Disco is manual - my
> neighbours think it's very funny when I stall the engine at the end of
> the road after having driven Grumble for even a short while :)

If you keep on all this talk about Auto's and 101'sI may have to kill file
you ;o)

I'm just begining to get somewhere with Percy now, refitted the front cross
member, exhaust manifolds and core plugs today. Just hope this engine is ok.

I can almost see the surface of my work bench.

I have progressed to 2 pathways through the garage and I may even get paint
on Morph some time this year. Alfie is doing his best to distract me still
with his green wing and door awaiting paintwork.

Lee D
--

www.lrproject.com

Workshop photos from Landrover repairs
& other such tinkerings.
Home of Percy the Jag powered Landrover


 
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 01:32:54 +0100, "Lee_D"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>If you keep on all this talk about Auto's and 101'sI may have to kill file
>you ;o)

You forgot the 4.6L V8 and jacuzzi...

>I have progressed to 2 pathways through the garage and I may even get paint
>on Morph some time this year. Alfie is doing his best to distract me still
>with his green wing and door awaiting paintwork.

And you'll no doubt be turning up in the luxury gin palace for Marque
Day again?

I'll remember to take a tow rope in case Alasdair forgets his...

 
"Mother" <"@ {m} @"@101fc.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> And you'll no doubt be turning up in the luxury gin palace for Marque
> Day again?

It's not looking promising this year :0( Clashes with work and with Bank
holiday rates I can't justify sneaking the day off.

> I'll remember to take a tow rope in case Alasdair forgets his...

I'm off outside again to do some more work on Percy... it's slow going...
but you never know, if I get there for a day he may get an outing... sadly
minus the 4.2 though.

The other serious temptation is the Northern unofficial but I've got to sort
some Tow bar supports first and some Paint would be nice.

Lee D



 
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:11:07 +0100, "Lee_D"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>The other serious temptation is the Northern unofficial but I've got to sort
>some Tow bar supports first and some Paint would be nice.

The Northern event this year is set to beat records I reckon. Anyone
with a 101 (within range) who misses it must be totally bonkers...

 
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:33:28 +0100, Mother <"@ {m} @"@101fc.net>
wrote:

>On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:11:07 +0100, "Lee_D"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>The other serious temptation is the Northern unofficial but I've got to sort
>>some Tow bar supports first and some Paint would be nice.
>
>The Northern event this year is set to beat records I reckon. Anyone
>with a 101 (within range) who misses it must be totally bonkers...

wibble wibble wibble


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com
 
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