hawse or roller fairlead

Awaiting delivery of winch which comes with a roller fairlead, but prefer the neater look of the hawse type. the winch will be occasional use the winch is rated at 13000lbs. any one have any points good or bad about either.

thanks

rollers are for wire.....hawse for synthetic

blue beasty said:

rollers are for wire.....hawse for synthetic

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That makes sense.

its is also true and you musnt deviate.

rollers can trap/tear synthetic, wire damages hawse.

cheers

what you using in your winch?

Me? 12mm dyneema, ally hawse.

Far superior to steel wire, I got ****ed off with it so upgraded!

Mr Noisy said:

Me? 12mm dyneema, ally hawse.

Far superior to steel wire, I got ****ed off with it so upgraded!

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I have been looking at which to have and pros and cons of steel wire and dyneema, I have had experiance of using Dyneema loaded up under tension, I fly big display kites (10m high bears, 20m octopuses that sort of thing) and use Dyneema for kite lines.

Also been trawling the internet for information over the last few months, yes there is the safety side with that is always meantioned with steel wire, i do wonder how many times it is abused and not maintained and checked, if it is abused, unmaintained and not checked then there is more risk involved but that stands wth cables/ropes/wires.

The other thing how many times do you see a winch blanket in use at a P&P site or when your with others using a winch, plus how many rely on just the blanket weight and not load it up with extra weight, or just one on a double or triple pull with snatch blocks.

Dyneema is far more lickly to get damaged, very easily cut/abrased, melt with friction, dirt inside the layers of fibres, also heat from the drum can damage it, the rope its self is soft so can get jamed in between the lower layer is not recoiled correct.

I would be intersted in peoples feelings on this, Please dont just put this is best with out any reason and explaination, as that is just a waste of time and woth nothing to subtatiate it.

Sorry Geoff... now my reason for why a roller and not solid Hawse.

The steel wire is rolled over the rollers, where as it would rub and cause friction and wear/cut through the Hawse.

If you used a Rollers with Synthetic it could be traped or cut by the edge of the rollers/ body.

So I would use rollers for steel wire and Hawes for Synthetic. what about a set of rollers that you remove for daily use, and only put on for off roading, just a thought.

Everybody's saying that you cannot use a hawse fairlead with a steel wire.

This isn't true.

You can use steel wire and hawse fairlead, BUT it will obviously wear a lot faster than a roller would and due to the smaller radius of hawse fialead compared to roller, the wire can be damaged more easily ( kinkied, split strands etc) I use a Steel hawse type fairlead with my Warn 9.5XP ( this was supplied with the winch by Warn and is supplied with the LR factory fit Warn winches too. For occasional use, it's fine, plus it doesnt take up as much space.

I'd use a steel hawse fairlead for occasional use.

ok mike yeah, i agree, im not saying you cant use wire with hawse - although tbh you just dont. you can get stainless hawse which would be much better suited to wire than an ally one.

let me tell you my story if you do so care to read on. Big Stu, this might be of help to you:

I have a superiwnch LP10000 which came fitted with steel wire. i have had it since april 2010, when it was bought brand new.

i only do PnP and more recently green laning, and cannot remember using the winch in particular anger. plus, with lockers on my disco from july 2010 onwards, the winch recently has not seen a lot of action.

i was/am always very careful when winching to let the wire/rope feed on nicely, and will stop halfway through a pull to respool the drum if its getting messy. i also spool out when i get home and wash the wire/rope, and spool it back neatly.

i was doing just fine with the steel wire until i did a PnP in november 2010 - this was a newly opened site and it was basically impassible, we were winching ALL day. so much that my isolator switch welded itself in the on position!

it was a real hassle running the steel in and out, for two reasons:

1. when you freespool it all unwinds and jumps off the drum, making a mess.

2. it bloody heavy hauling it up hills etc.

when we got back from that day i noticed a fair few more sections that were kinked, some badly, and also a few areas where the wire had untwisted.

i then decided that rope was the only way to go, seeing as it was difficult to use and now rather knackered.

looking around for info i read this explanation:

although steel wire will usually be more resilient to damage whilst making a recovery, it is more likely to be damaged beyond use over the long term. rope on the other hand can easily be damaged whilst making a recovery, for instance snagging on a rock or melting on the drum, but if looked after and used carefully it will long outlast a steel wire, as it is less likely to damage ITSELF whilst in use.

steel wire damages itself when it is wound onto the drum and allowed to kink (which in a 4x4 recovery is inevitable)

so, i decided that as long as i was careful it would outlast the wire.

i fitted it, and it seemed great. on my first PnP it was much easier to freespool and run out, but i did also make errors with it.

it is thicker than wire, so if pulling at an angle, can easily bunch up and mine actually got tight against the bars which run along the winch drum. this flat spotted the rope. i was gutted!

i also made a side pull and it bunched up against the eyelet on the end of the rope, which ripped it out of the eyelet, allowed the end of the rope to move, and a small section got melted to the drum. i was more gutted when i got home!

ANYWAY, in the workshop i spooled the whole lot off, cut off the melted 2" off the end, removed the heat protection sleeve (which works!) and dunked the whole lot in hot soapy water. this immediatly softened the rope and the flat spots disappeared. these now show as light scuffs on the rope, nothing serious at all. normal in fact, apparently.

i recrimped the eyelet on and repositioned it so that it was resting against the drum already, and respooled the rope.

i have only used it twice since then, but i was careful to avoid it bunching too much and it's been fine. it has been spooled on in a bit of a mess but i know it wont have damaged the rope, whereas a wire would have.

the main thing i find with rope is to make sure it is spooled on tight. if you winch tight over loose rope underneath, it will dig right in and cause compression problems.

all in all a great improvement. as i tried to explain above, you do not need to look after wire in the short term, but it buggers itself up in the long term anyway, whereas if you look after rope in the short term, it will last far longer than wire can in the long term.

hope that helps,

cheers, sam

With a rope, is it correct that you "criss-cross the rope when winding back onto the drum, to stop the rope from compressing itself together and jamming up if wound neatly? Whereas with a steel cable, its best to wrap it under light load in neat regular pattern?

to be honest mike, i dont know!

i can see the logic there, but i just wound mine on regularly, as i did the steel.

i think on an 8274 with a large drum there is potential for that, but a regular small drum winch would probably run out of space for a criss cross wound round.

i found that it winds on ok as long as the rope underneath is tight. when tight it is stretched out, hard, and cannot be squashed. when its loose it compresses down and that makes it jam.

i'l try it soon, need to respool it sometime this week.

cheers!

Mike_B said:

Everybody's saying that you cannot use a hawse fairlead with a steel wire.

This isn't true.

You can use steel wire and hawse fairlead, BUT it will obviously wear a lot faster than a roller would and due to the smaller radius of hawse fialead compared to roller, the wire can be damaged more easily ( kinkied, split strands etc) I use a Steel hawse type fairlead with my Warn 9.5XP ( this was supplied with the winch by Warn and is supplied with the LR factory fit Warn winches too. For occasional use, it's fine, plus it doesnt take up as much space.

I'd use a steel hawse fairlead for occasional use.

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So I can use a hawse fairlead but should be steel, anyone got any other opinion. would like to hear them.

Stainless steel gets my vote.

try it and see.

it wont not work, just might get worn. maybe stainless will be fine???

Mike_B said:

With a rope, is it correct that you "criss-cross the rope when winding back onto the drum, to stop the rope from compressing itself together and jamming up if wound neatly? Whereas with a steel cable, its best to wrap it under light load in neat regular pattern?

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nope thats incorrect..
if you criss cross the rope you would have to have a bloody big drum with plenty of space above and below the drum as it would end up twice as thick wound on the drum

wickford90 said:

So I can use a hawse fairlead but should be steel, anyone got any other opinion. would like to hear them.

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Damage to the hawse aint the worry.....its damage to the wire

Big Stu 12 said:

Dyneema is far more lickly to get damaged, very easily cut/abrased, melt with friction, dirt inside the layers of fibres, also heat from the drum can damage it, the rope its self is soft so can get jamed in between the lower layer is not recoiled correct.

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totally disagree with that,on what info did you base that statement?

i use marlow ropes for competition and at £400 they aint cheap
they have never cut,abrased or melted and they get used in anger on winch competitions

if you get them jammed your obviously inexperienced and should maybe not be using a winch in the first place

in my experience in competition i dont know of anyone who uses steel wire,not saying people dont just i aint seen one
a rope or wire is like anything else on yr landy it needs looking after neglect it and it will let you down

steel wire is illegal in competition i thought - from the safety aspect (aswell as all the other reasons aswell i guess)

to the OP, yes, you can use a hawse fairlead with a steel wire - I do. It must be a steel fairlead. An aluminium one will be very quickly destroyed by a steel cable.

This link states that "The black unit is good for use with wire or synthetic rope on winches with a 4,000 lb. (1815 kg) pull capacity or greater. "

Warn Industries - Truck Accessories: Hawse Fairleads

heres an image from the land rover accessory catalogue

http://assets.config.landrover.com/v2k6o/lr/gb/l319/accoly_gb_l319_vub501471.jpg

make your own decision!

wiltshire landyman said:

totally disagree with that,on what info did you base that statement?

i use marlow ropes for competition and at £400 they aint cheap
they have never cut,abrased or melted and they get used in anger on winch competitions

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I have based it on what I have read on the information that is avalible that I have read about on the great internet of ours, also from other winch users, this is one reason for my post which is real and which is not,

A £400 rope will have be differnt to a £150 rope I would of thought. I can not justify £400 for a winch rope, so one like yours is not a choice, I wish it was.

There is a referance to a melted bit of rope in this thread, as i said its good to hear from all walks of users, and as many as posible, it therefore gives a more informed choice.

Thank you for your input.

Yes certainly I think the Marlow dynaline is different to the dyneema. Is the Marlow plasma rope whereas the dyneema is, well, dyneema?!

Tbh I don't know if plasma is just a household name.

Winch-it are selling 100ft dyneema and alloy hawse on eBay for 160. That's what I bought.

It had melted where the heat protection had slipped and the rope contacted the drum. That was my mistake, I shall avoid that in future.

Honestly stu even with a cheapo dyneema you won't look back, it's great stuff, so much easier - no dangerous breakages, no wire splinters, easy to work with, repairable, and lighter too up front.

Cheers