Grinding noise from gearbox

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idewetep

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Hello, I´m new here. I have searched but not found an explanation to my grinding noise from the gearbox area. I recorded a clip to illustrate and hopefully get advise on what this could be.

The car P38 1999 4.6 HSE has 250 000 km on the clock and runs well with smooth shifts. Oil looks fine. The sound decreases as the transmission heats up. At working temp the sound is more like a whining.

Torque converter, flex plate, pump, stator, turbine - what makes this sound?

Link to youtube clip
Range Rover P38 -99 - YouTube

Cheers
 
If it does it more when cold and in Neutral than hot and than when moving I'd say your flex plate is cracked you can get if checked with a Endoscopy camera at a repitible garage the plate it around £50 if you can take gearbox off or £600 if not get it checked first tho
 
idewetep said:
Hello, I´m new here. I have searched but not found an explanation to my grinding noise from the gearbox area. I recorded a clip to illustrate and hopefully get advise on what this could be.

The car P38 1999 4.6 HSE has 250 000 km on the clock and runs well with smooth shifts. Oil looks fine. The sound decreases as the transmission heats up. At working temp the sound is more like a whining.

Torque converter, flex plate, pump, stator, turbine - what makes this sound?

Link to youtube clip
Range Rover P38 -99 - YouTube

Cheers
Click to expand...

No sound on my computer:) does it happen in neutral or just when driving?
If when driving, transfer box and UJ's can also make nasty noises.
If in neutral are you sure it's from the gearbox area?
 
It happens regardless of moving or standstill. In the video I cold start the engine for the day.

1. I´m in P (park) and just after a few seconds the noise come on following the rpm´s basically. Or the torque converters outgoing shaft to gearbox.
2. I shift to R (reverse) and noise is still there
3. Shift to N (neutral) and noise is still there
4. I shift to D and noise is still there

I then take off in LOW for a while and stops to shift to HIGH. The noise is there all the time. I then take off in HIGH on to a road and accelerate. The noise is there and follows the engine or torque converter. The noise is more clear at load, when I reach speed and ease on the accelerator the noise decreases.

I´m quite sure it´s from gearbox area.
 
in that case I'm betting on transfer box ..if you hold a decent size hose pipe up against bell housing /gearbox sump/transfer box and your ear you will be able to better distinguish where noise is comming from in Neutral Naturally :)
 
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Thanks for answers. I hope it is the transfer since it is easier to access. But, does it move while in stand still? Isn´t that connected to the shafts that obviously are still in P or N mode?

What is the bell housing? Could be my limited knowledge in motor english.
 
idewetep said:
Hello, I´m new here. I have searched but not found an explanation to my grinding noise from the gearbox area. I recorded a clip to illustrate and hopefully get advise on what this could be.

The car P38 1999 4.6 HSE has 250 000 km on the clock and runs well with smooth shifts. Oil looks fine. The sound decreases as the transmission heats up. At working temp the sound is more like a whining.

Torque converter, flex plate, pump, stator, turbine - what makes this sound?

Link to youtube clip
Range Rover P38 -99 - YouTube

Cheers
Click to expand...

I would contact Ashcrofts and ask them to listen to your u-tube video
 
idewetep said:
It happens regardless of moving or standstill. In the video I cold start the engine for the day.

1. I´m in P (park) and just after a few seconds the noise come on following the rpm´s basically. Or the torque converters outgoing shaft to gearbox.
2. I shift to R (reverse) and noise is still there
3. Shift to N (neutral) and noise is still there
4. I shift to D and noise is still there

I then take off in LOW for a while and stops to shift to HIGH. The noise is there all the time. I then take off in HIGH on to a road and accelerate. The noise is there and follows the engine or torque converter. The noise is more clear at load, when I reach speed and ease on the accelerator the noise decreases.

I´m quite sure it´s from gearbox area.
Click to expand...
it cant be transfer box if it does it in p ,you need to look at torque convertor and its drive platee and bolts ,bell housing is the one that bolts to engine that houses t/c
 
Flex plate cracks are usually hidden by the big washer they are bolted through
therefore not visible by boroscope.
 
As can be heard in the film clip the grinding noise comes after a few seconds. The explanation to that must be it's something that builds up speed compared to the engine that instantly has about 1000 rpm's at cold start. Therefor I think it must be after the flywheel since I belive that is attached to crank shaft. Leaving second half of t/c or ingoing shaft to gearbox. Right?
 
The boss is attached to the fly wheel then flex plate and the torq converter then pump
To cut a long story short its a hige mileage box to have some one takin it off just to look will cost £300 so as the others have suggested with such a high mileage ashcrofts will rebuild it with what is nessary and put a new t/c from £1300 worth it really..if all else is good
 
idewetep said:
As can be heard in the film clip the grinding noise comes after a few seconds. The explanation to that must be it's something that builds up speed compared to the engine that instantly has about 1000 rpm's at cold start. Therefor I think it must be after the flywheel since I belive that is attached to crank shaft. Leaving second half of t/c or ingoing shaft to gearbox. Right?
Click to expand...
t/c is fly wheel as such its bolted to steel disc that bolted to crank its not unknown for disc to crack at bolt hole for t/c or crank ,cheap fix often with another drive plate
 
Pardon my ignorance but does the compartment (bell housing?) where the torque converter is swim in ATF oil from the gearbox? Or how does the oil enter the TC? In this atached clip I found on youtube there is a walk-around of a ZF P38 gearbox and I think 1 minute in to the film they remove the TC. They also talk about the oilpump still in the gearbox, is that pumping through the splined axle? As you noticed I´m really a beginner at this.

Range Rover P38 2 5 DSE Auto Gearbox Movie Clip 002 - YouTube
 
No oil in bell housing unless you got a seal gone from cranshaft or gearbox , there is an inspection plate underneath with three bolts :) when you undu bolts to flex plate t/c it connected to gearbox on pump that supplies oil utter carefulness is needed not to separate t/c and pump when refitting
 
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Today I did à quick test with a hose in order to locate the grinding. Unfortunatly no luck. The sound is easy to hear inside the car but on the outside it drowns in all the noise from running engine.
I did however find one more clue. I have a pretty steep angeled slope as drive way. The noise at stand still is only there when parked facing the rear side of car at the lowest point i.e the most oil would be at the far end of the gearbox. On horizontal or front facing lowest point the sound is not there until loaded.
 
idewetep said:
Today I did à quick test with a hose in order to locate the grinding. Unfortunatly no luck. The sound is easy to hear inside the car but on the outside it drowns in all the noise from running engine.
I did however find one more clue. I have a pretty steep angeled slope as drive way. The noise at stand still is only there when parked facing the rear side of car at the lowest point i.e the most oil would be at the far end of the gearbox. On horizontal or front facing lowest point the sound is not there until loaded.
Click to expand...

I understand what your saying but in therory the sumps engine / gearbox / transfer should have Sufficient oil for most Reasonable angles so clueless
 
I think it must be a worn bearing somewhere in the t/c or the shaft that the t/c drives.
Is there a detailed sketch with part numbers available somewhere for the t/c and auto gearbox?
Just need to build up confidence now to start taking the gearbox out, I guess. I plan to go with the method of taking just the gearbox downwards since it feels like a massive task to remove entire engine with gearbox.
 
idewetep said:
I think it must be a worn bearing somewhere in the t/c or the shaft that the t/c drives.
Is there a detailed sketch with part numbers available somewhere for the t/c and auto gearbox?
Just need to build up confidence now to start taking the gearbox out, I guess. I plan to go with the method of taking just the gearbox downwards since it feels like a massive task to remove entire engine with gearbox.
Click to expand...
t/c bolts onto thinnish drive plate bolted directly to crank ,thats were id look ,can be checked with box on the vehicle through inspection plate,there are no bearings in an auto box as youd imagine just needle roller thrust bearings , the best way to remove box is by supporting box and t/box by a chain through removed center consol with an engine crane ,apart from taking weightit enables you to easily lift and lower to reach bolts etc
 
As my early post ,I have have done my flex plate all I can say is that when cold in Neutral it was more Of a rattle as I engaged gear the tension taken up would slightly reduce the noise for a moment and then return once driven and once warmed up the rattle was still there slightly less obvious whist driving but still there , slightly less obvious in Neutral and a slight drop in noise again whist engaging a gear but still there once Engaged also the reason it is slight less noise when hot is plate parts get hot And expand
 
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