FREELANDER 1 AUTOMATIC Gearbox Problem JATCO TD4

Thanks to the admin for approval!
Hi guys its Varden from Mauritius,

Mum had a laminectomy 2 years ago and could no more drive Manual, so we bought a Freelander 1 TD4 Jacto (Automatic) Year 2001 for her. (we’ve owned 2 freelander 1 manual in the past, very good SUV!)

The first owner did lie about the history when purchased, whereby the gearbox was slipping gears, we drove it like that in a first time for we didn't have much money to seek for a garage. It would drive up to the 3rd gear and would slip at higher rpm and then take the 4th and 5th same thing ...It recently went worst with nothing happening at higher rpm after the 3rd gear which made it impossible to drive. So we opted for a gearbox change as we could not find any good mechanic to open up the box and tell what was wrong.

The other box did drive very well for the first two days only and then the engine would not start at times and gears would go up to the 3rd smoothly , it would take the 4th and immediately pull back to the 3rd…no way to get the 4th on, even on manual it would pull back to the 3rd...we got it checked for faults...cam shaft sensor was faulty, and speed sensor faulty...we changed the cam shaft sensor and it is now starting, they also changed the speed sensor (on the wheels and cleared the faults) It drove well that day only..

The next day it would do the same thing again about the gears, taking up to the 3rd easily and pull back to the 3rd when the 4th tried to sit in. We drove it like that for some distance and keep trying the 4th on manual but in vain. It always pulled back strong to the 3rd with a loud noise when the 4th tried to sit in...so we've put it at rest..and no mechanics here have a good knowledge about this gearbox to open it up..unless change for another box again which is very expensive and not guaranteed.

I’ve also experienced that it would take the 4th gear only when the temperature is at its maximum and 5th also. However the power would be moderate at acceleration. (nothing above 120 km/h, 75 miles per hour)

I've read many of your posts and I tried for oil level checks and solenoid resistance checks...oil level checks did not change anything and solenoid and sensor resistances failed both on the barrel connection to the gearbox and the L-shaped gear box computer resistance was always exceeded.

My results ()

Method 1 Barrel connection:

Pin 1 - 2 = Turbine speed sensor (513 to 627 ohms) (637)
Pin 3 - 4 = Intermediate speed sensor (513 to 627 ohms) (647)
Pin 5 - 6 = Vehicle speed sensor (513 to 627 ohms) (644)
Pin 7 - 8 = Fluid temperature sensor (740) (about 50 degree)
Pin 18 is the common for all solenoid measurements.
Pin 9 - 18 = Shift solenoid valve A (14 to 18 ohms) (18.5)
Pin 10 - 18 = Shift solenoid valve B (14 to 18 ohms) (18.5)
Pin 11 - 18 = Shift solenoid valve C (14 to 18 ohms) (18.6)
Pin 12 - 18 = Low clutch timing solenoid valve (14 to 18 ohms) (18.5)
Pin 13 - 18 = 2-4 brake timing solenoid valve (14 to 18 ohms) (18.5)
Pin 14 - 18 = Reduction timing solenoid valve (14 to 18 ohms) (18.5)
Pin 15 - 18 = Line pressure duty solenoid valve (2.6 to 3.2 ohms) (3.6)
Pin 16 - 18 = 2-4 brake duty solenoid valve (2.6 to 3.2 ohms) (3.6)
Pin 17 - 18 = Lock-up solenoid valve (12 to 13.2 ohms) (14.8)

Method 2: Computer Sensor resistance

Pin 5 - 20 = Vehicle speed sensor (513 to 627 ohms) (658)
Pin 21 - 20 = Intermediate speed sensor (513 to 627 ohms) (671)
Pin 24 - 20 = Turbine speed sensor (513 to 627 ohms) (642)
Pin 39 - 20 = Fluid temperature sensor (695)
Pin 17 is the common for all solenoid measurements.
Pin 3 - 17 = 2-4 brake duty solenoid valve (2.6 to 3.2 ohms) (4.1)
Pin 4 - 17 = 2-4 brake timing solenoid valve (14 to 18 ohms) (19.3)
Pin 10 - 17 = Reduction timing solenoid valve (14 to 18 ohms) (19.2)
Pin 14 - 17 = Shift solenoid valve B (14 to 18 ohms) (19.7)
Pin 15 - 17 = Shift solenoid valve A (14 to 18 ohms) (19.7)
Pin 16 - 17 = Lock-up solenoid valve (12 to 13.2 ohms) (17.2)
Pin 17 - 18 = Line pressure duty solenoid valve (2.6 to 3.2 ohms) (4.1)
Pin 52 - 17 = Shift solenoid valve C (14 to 18 ohms) (19.3)
Pin 53 - 17 = Low clutch timing solenoid valve (14 to 18 ohms) (19.4)

None would be within limits

Can anyone help? Any further checks possible? I was wondering if I swap the valve box with my previous gearbox could solve the problem??

Thanks a lot!

Hi. Sorry to hear you are having such trouble.
I suspect that your old gearbox was slipping due to worn clutches. These aren't actually that difficult to change.

The replacement gearbox sounds like it is from a later Freelander. The later Jatco doesn't have as many speed sensors as the early box. This is why I think it's flagging a speed sensor fault. This is nothing to do with wheel sensors.
You need to get the codes read again to see what is coming up.

Hi , thanks for replying....we've checked for faults again...nothing came up again.....and both gearbox are similar..and comes from a similar TD4 freelander 1 ...any idea about what else it could be?

Thanks

If you are sure the replacement is from the same year car. Then you could have a wiring fault or a problem with the TCM.

Not sure same year, but same engine and same gearbox..all connections were similar......tcm? where is that? is there any check i can perform? Thanks

I've already checked if the connectors were tight..and not damaged..nothing like that. Can it be the torque convertor? what is triggering the pull back to the 3rd when it comes to the 4th and why would it take it only when hot?

it could be the seals in the gearbox are going I had that a few years ago but at the same time I had new clutch plates put in to save a bigger job but also you need the fluid changing every 60000 miles or 100000 kl but you need to get it right before going down the rout of changing the fluid or you are just wasting money try to get hold of hippo he has done lots of auto gear boxes

The resistance check values all read slightly high. I've seen this happen before when the battery in the test meter is low. A fully charged battery or new battery corrected the problem. It's difficult to comment on the readings as they're all out.

When you checked the auto oil level did it smell brunt or was it brown? This is a sign your clutch plates are worn. I don't think this is the problem on this occasion. Oil smell/colour will confirm this.

You say it runs ok in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear. When changing to 4th (automatically in Drive) it tries to change, then chooses to change back to 3rd. This can happen if the computer controlling the gearbox senses a problem with 4th gear. Like taking up drive to continue moving the vehicle forward only to find it lacks power, so drops back to 3rd gear to continue. This can be solenoid/sensor related. As said by others above is can be low oil pressure in the auto. Either seals have failed or something else which causes loss of pressure.

It would be good if you could get fault codes out of the auto gearbox computer. You may also be able to find something in the engine computer. The auto computer organises the gear change and senses feedback from the sensors. This info is used by the engine computer. The engine computer makes the request for "change up/down" to match power request and what it wants to do. Rev high in a lower gear on harsh acceleration for example. Hence it's always good to read error codes from both engine/gearbox computers.

If it were mine I would try measuring again with a better battery in the meter and see about getting the codes read from the computers if you can.

Thinking about this some more... are you saying the replacement gearbox worked ok for a bit, then had the same problem as the original gearbox?

teddywood1 said:

it could be the seals in the gearbox are going I had that a few years ago but at the same time I had new clutch plates put in to save a bigger job but also you need the fluid changing every 60000 miles or 100000 kl but you need to get it right before going down the rout of changing the fluid or you are just wasting money try to get hold of hippo he has done lots of auto gear boxes

Click to expand...

Thanks for your advice Teddy.. When we changed the gearbox last month we've had a fluid change. The first two days it drove well...problems came only after. Could be the seals as you said. will do Hippo's test again first and see! Keep u informed!

Hippo said:

The resistance check values all read slightly high. I've seen this happen before when the battery in the test meter is low. A fully charged battery or new battery corrected the problem. It's difficult to comment on the readings as they're all out.

When you checked the auto oil level did it smell brunt or was it brown? This is a sign your clutch plates are worn. I don't think this is the problem on this occasion. Oil smell/colour will confirm this.

You say it runs ok in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear. When changing to 4th (automatically in Drive) it tries to change, then chooses to change back to 3rd. This can happen if the computer controlling the gearbox senses a problem with 4th gear. Like taking up drive to continue moving the vehicle forward only to find it lacks power, so drops back to 3rd gear to continue. This can be solenoid/sensor related. As said by others above is can be low oil pressure in the auto. Either seals have failed or something else which causes loss of pressure.

It would be good if you could get fault codes out of the auto gearbox computer. You may also be able to find something in the engine computer. The auto computer organises the gear change and senses feedback from the sensors. This info is used by the engine computer. The engine computer makes the request for "change up/down" to match power request and what it wants to do. Rev high in a lower gear on harsh acceleration for example. Hence it's always good to read error codes from both engine/gearbox computers.

If it were mine I would try measuring again with a better battery in the meter and see about getting the codes read from the computers if you can.

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The oil didn't really smell but was quite brown yes....

It does try to shift in the 4th but step back to the 3rd immediately with a strong pull both on Drive and on manual also when i select the 4th. However after a long drive when the temperature is at top. The 4th goes in and 5th also both on manual and on Drive but the power is not there...it only goes up to 120km/h on the motorway.

The engine and the transmission doesnt show any fault codes now...even if the problem is there..
As i said we had fault codes of cam shaft and speed sensor the first time we've checked and they changed both and cleared the faults...it drove well again that day..and the next day the problem came up again. again fault codes appeared...with speed sensors..don't really know which one. but they changed wheel speed sensors...and the problem remained..and no more faults on the engine and transmission appears even today...maybe because they cleared it? the problem is still there..and I gave up..there is no good mechanic here..they said they can't fix...but they can find another box..which is very expensive.

YES IT DROVE WELL the first two days after changing gearbox...problem started only after some drive.
My previous box had a different problem...it always went high at rpm before taking the 4th and the 5th also..we had to accelerate to high rpm..release the pedal and then it would take higher gears than the 3rd.

I checked the resistances from my previous box and all were within limit..I was thinking about swapping it with the actual one. do you think its a good start?
If it was a solenoid problem, this could fix it right?
I will try checking the resistances again however with a fully charged meter readerbefore trying this.

Also if it would be the seals..are they easy to change? thanks a lot for your responses

Are you sure the engine making full power. It sounds low on power to me, which is why it's not staying in a higher gear. 120Kph is well under the possible top speed of a correctly working TD4 FL1.

How to check if the engine is making full power...it seems to be ok for me as per the sounds it does when i accelerate. however ur right when hot. the 4th takes in and the 5th also but never exceed 120kph. whereas in the past it used to go up to 150kph when i had the previous gearbox.

I'm focussing on the gearbox only as i just changed it and drove well only for two days..and the box is a second hand with no guarantee...so im thinking about it would be the only cause.. maybe im wrong.?

To check for low engine power you could manually select 3rd gear and hold it there to see how fast it will go in that gear. Not a perfect test but easy to do. Compare your speed to others.

Did yer find the fault in the end?

any news on getting it fixed?

Hippo said:

any news on getting it fixed?

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Hi Hippo, do you know if this came right. I’m having same problems. With 3rd to 4th gear... and starts to work once car has been running for about 20 min. I’ve seen so many posts of similar problem but no confirmed solution.?

chrisk001 said:

Hi Hippo, do you know if this came right. I’m having same problems. With 3rd to 4th gear... and starts to work once car has been running for about 20 min. I’ve seen so many posts of similar problem but no confirmed solution.?

Click to expand...

Unfortunately he never came back to advise if he got it fixed and if so how.