Engine immobilised???

Hi guys.
Rangey has been working well for some time now (P38 4.6gems) so it's about time I had a problem.
Hadn't used the car for 3 weeks and when I came to use it yesterday the battery was flat. Was just a standard Varta 70AH so decided to replace it with a bigger 115AH 750cca battery.
Fitted it today but I'm now getting the 'Engine Immobilised' flash on the dash and the key fob will not operate the central locking. Tried entering the eka code (which is correct as I've used it in the past) but still no luck. The led lights on the fob are lighting up when pressed and after entering the eka code the red alarm light on dash top goes out as it should; but still getting immobilised message and also Fuse 15 failed. This has happened twice, replaced the fuse 15 (underseat) and its blowing everytime I turn the key fully in ignition (this is the fuse for the handset receiver, courtesy lights,etc). Any ideas anyone? Some sort of eletrical comms problem but I'm not sure what to try next, and of course I can't drive it down the garage!!

Ok, so definitely something on Fuse 15 that's causing it to blow all the time...

Fuse 15 feeds quite a few things...
Rear door amplifiers (Both LH/RH)
Subwoofer Amp
Interior Lights: Left, Right, Front main lamp unit, and Loadspace lamp
Home Link connector (not on UK spec vehicles)
Tailgate lock actuator
Alarm RF Module.
It also internally powers PL8 on the BECM power board which is the Lock/Unlock for the rear doors.

In theory there isn't anything there that once the EKA has been input that should stop the vehicle from starting. Yes, not having the RF module working will stop you from resyncing the key - but as soon as the EKA has been entered sucessfully, then it should start anyway. (unless there is another undocumented internal feed from F15 in the BECM that has something to do with the starting - but I'm not home with a spare power board in front of me so can't check!)

I guess the first thing to do would be to unplug everything that is connected to F15 (they are all on C325 (pin 17), C323 (pin 4), and C361 (pin 6) from the BECM) C325 is the 18 way Grey connector on the front of the BECM, C323 is the 12 way Grey connector on the front of the BECM, and C361 is the pain as it's an 18 way white connector on the side of the BECM nearest the transmission tunnel.

They are all solid purple wires, and if I were to troubleshoot it, then I would disconnect the the connectors and remove the pins above and then try it with nothing connected ans see if the fuse still blows. If it doesn't, then I'd reconnect the pins one at a time to narrow down what supply the fault it on, and then work down the chain from there.

If it still blows with all the external connections to F15 removed, then it must be an internal problem in the BECM (probably on the power board) - and you would either have to send it away to be looked at and repaired/replaced - or if you can get hold of another power board, then you can swap them out yourself.

I have heard before of problems with both the tailgate solenoid motor having failed and basically causing a short circuit - or wiring problems, mostly to the interior lights - where a wire insulation has chafed and then shorted to the bodywork.

It could also be an issue in the wiring loom in the RH sill where the feed to the RH/Front/Load Space lamps, tailgate lock actuator, and the RF unit all splice together. When I first bought my RR, there had been water leaks inside the vehicle (blocked sunroof drain I think) and the RH sill had about an inch of water in it, which doesn't do any good for splices in wiring looms!

Hope this helps,
Marty

Cheers Marty - that's great info - I'll check all of that out.
It also occurred to me that the initial reason for battery drain may be a problem with the RF receiver. It's a '98 P38 so would have the first type receiver. When I unlock the drivers door manually with the key - it opens that door and unlocks the 2 back doors; but not the passenger door or rear tailgate. I'm wondering if the RF unit has fried the 2 front door lock mechanisms.
If the front door lock mechanism is burnt out, would this be a reason why I can't get the EKA code to work.
I also need to find out at what point fuse 15 is blowing - I've only known it's blown from the message on the dash - so I'll see if it's blowing after I've entered the EKA code - or when I'm turning the key in the ignition.
Cheers again
Kevin

kevwill said:

Cheers Marty - that's great info - I'll check all of that out.
It also occurred to me that the initial reason for battery drain may be a problem with the RF receiver. It's a '98 P38 so would have the first type receiver. When I unlock the drivers door manually with the key - it opens that door and unlocks the 2 back doors; but not the passenger door or rear tailgate. I'm wondering if the RF unit has fried the 2 front door lock mechanisms.
If the front door lock mechanism is burnt out, would this be a reason why I can't get the EKA code to work.
I also need to find out at what point fuse 15 is blowing - I've only known it's blown from the message on the dash - so I'll see if it's blowing after I've entered the EKA code - or when I'm turning the key in the ignition.
Cheers again
Kevin

Click to expand...

If that happens it's nothing to do with the RF receiver. If it opens the rear doors the CDL switch is working your problems are in the passenger door and tailgate or wires to them.

Thank you wammers.
Yep, thinking about it, when I entered the EKA code I got the indicator lights flashing and the red alarm light on top of dash went out as the manual said it should - just wouldn't clear the 'engine immobilised'. Will have a good look today. Think I'll get myself a bag of 20amp fuses first.
If I can't get the tailgate to open though, can I still get access to the tailgate lock to check the wiring?

If the passenger door doesn't open but the rear ones do, then chances are the motor in the door latch has burnt out (which can be a symptom of RF interference on the earlier P38's). More than likely the drivers door motor has burnt out aswell - but this isn't immediately noticeable as when you lock/unlock the drivers door with the key - it is a direct mechanical linkage that is operating the lock - the motor in the drivers door will only run if it is locked/unlocked with the remote, or the sill lock button on the passenger door.

The fact the EKA is being entered OK, points towards the microswitches in the door latch being OK and working as they should.

Tailgate: in theory if fuse F15 doesn't blow as soon as you replace it, then with the drivers door unlocked (even with the key) then you should be able to open the tailgate as the +12v is permanently supplied to the locking motor via F15, and the grounding for the tailgate is thru the drivers door latch CDL switch. If F15 is blowing as soon as you replace it, then you can gain access to the loadspace via the back seats, where you can then (and it's a bit of a struggle) get the carpet trim undone and removed from the lower tailgate - and then access the tailgate locking mechanism to manually trip it and unlock it.

What happens if you try the EKA and to start the vehicle with F15 removed? This will mean the RF receiver is not sending anything to the BECM - I have heard a few times that if the RR is still being affected by the RF interference when you are putting the EKA in, then it can do strange things.

If you still can't get it started, then unfortunately to me is sounds as if the BECM has gone into alarm lockout, which is where even though it might accept the EKA, it still won't properly disarm and start the vehicle. These days it isn't a case of having to replace the whole thing (despite what most garages will still tell you!) as you can send the BECM off to have the alarm lockout reset and that usually gets it back up and running happily. I would offer my services to do it, as I have the equipment to access the BECM settings, but I am away pretty much until the end of June, so not a lot of use to you. However, I see you are in Hastings, so give Callrova a call (rick-the-pick on this forum) as they are based in Brighton and will be able to sort it out for you. Chances are if the F15 fault is on the BECM power board, then they will be able to fix that at the same time.

I still think it's worth checking wiring and the likes to see if you can trace the F15 fault to something in the vehicle first, and trying the EKA without the RF receiver disconnected, just to rule that out.

kevwill said:

Thank you wammers.
Yep, thinking about it, when I entered the EKA code I got the indicator lights flashing and the red alarm light on top of dash went out as the manual said it should - just wouldn't clear the 'engine immobilised'. Will have a good look today. Think I'll get myself a bag of 20amp fuses first.
If I can't get the tailgate to open though, can I still get access to the tailgate lock to check the wiring?

Click to expand...

Yes you can remove the bottom tailgate panel from inside.

Cheers - I'll get clambering and let you know.

Well I won't get clambering until tomorrow morning - when I've got time to somehow remove the dog guard so that I can climb into the back.
Will go through the wire checking also, as you suggested Marty. I tried the EKA whith F15 removed but this makes no difference.
One thing I noticed this time is that when manually using the key in the drivers door, the back doors do not unlock with the central locking (nor does the tailgate of course). But when I lift the tabs and unlock both rear doors - and then manually lock the drivers door with the key, the back doors also lock.
I've ordered lock mechanisms for both passenger & drivers door and I think (when I get the engine mobilised) I'll also order an uprated RF receiver.
At the moment though I want to get the tailgate latch checked out. I'll keep you all posted.

kevwill said:

Well I won't get clambering until tomorrow morning - when I've got time to somehow remove the dog guard so that I can climb into the back.
Will go through the wire checking also, as you suggested Marty. I tried the EKA whith F15 removed but this makes no difference.
One thing I noticed this time is that when manually using the key in the drivers door, the back doors do not unlock with the central locking (nor does the tailgate of course). But when I lift the tabs and unlock both rear doors - and then manually lock the drivers door with the key, the back doors also lock.
I've ordered lock mechanisms for both passenger & drivers door and I think (when I get the engine mobilised) I'll also order an uprated RF receiver.
At the moment though I want to get the tailgate latch checked out. I'll keep you all posted.

Click to expand...

CDL micro switch fault on drivers door lock.

Nice one wammers. The micro switch? - is that part of the door lock mechanism? i.e. if I fit a new drivers door lock mechanism i'm also fitting a new micro switch?

kevwill said:

Nice one wammers. The micro switch? - is that part of the door lock mechanism? i.e. if I fit a new drivers door lock mechanism i'm also fitting a new micro switch?

Click to expand...

Yes and yes. The CDL switch locks or unlocks all the other doors. But the passenger door sometimes suffers from water ingress into the white plug and socket behind the passenger trim panel at the base of the A post. Tailgate suffers from bad contacts on unlock push button. Whilst the tailgate lock may be active and powered a non connection on the button and it will not open.

Thanks and thanks.

Your fuse problems apart, if the battery had flattened while the car was locked, you may be suffering from the 'confused BECM syndrome' that I (and others) have suffered in similar circumstances, where the becm starts speaking French and forgets its mileage and VIN number . . .
My thread here:- https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/confused-becm-keycode-lockout.283235/ explains it, you'll need diagnostics to get it up and running again though.

Best of luck.
Alastair

Thanks Alastair. If changing the locks (and new rf receiver) doesn't sort the problem and I've eliminated any wiring problems, it'll be a call to my local friendly indy Land Rover garage to get it hooked up to their diagnostics. Whatever the reason for the problem I'm going to have to replace the 2 front lock mechanisms for sure.
I remember I did have a battery drain about 6 years ago which happened overnight and the passenger door superlocked itself. Had the fun and games of getting the door trim off with the door closed, and smashing the top of the lock with a long screwdriver to get it to unlock so I could replace it. But on that occasion the EKA code worked, and the drivers door lock was ok.
Thanks again, and I'll check your thread out.
Cheers. Kevin.

The microswitches are at the bottom of the lock mechanism and just clip in. Assuming you can find ones the same you can just swap the microswitch in question. If you can find an MGF lock from the same year they have the same motors inside but I cannot recall if the microswitches are the same. Actually, I might have an old microswitch in the shed you can have if you want to have a try.

Some of the MGF locks & switches are the same . . . others are not. If you're buying from eBay then check the pictures & count the wires or connector pins. This will tell you if they have the same three switches. Watch out for sellers using generic pictures. Best to message them and ask.

Pete

Grrrrrr said:

The microswitches are at the bottom of the lock mechanism and just clip in. Assuming you can find ones the same you can just swap the microswitch in question. If you can find an MGF lock from the same year they have the same motors inside but I cannot recall if the microswitches are the same. Actually, I might have an old microswitch in the shed you can have if you want to have a try.

Click to expand...

Thanks Grrrrrr, that's kind of you. I've got 2 front door locks coming from east coast 4x4, so hoping that will solve my blown micro switch problems. Just hoping it will solve my 'engine immobilised' problem and I'll be able to enter the EKA code ok.
Cheers
Kevin

martyuk said:

Ok, so definitely something on Fuse 15 that's causing it to blow all the time...

Fuse 15 feeds quite a few things...
Rear door amplifiers (Both LH/RH)
Subwoofer Amp
Interior Lights: Left, Right, Front main lamp unit, and Loadspace lamp
Home Link connector (not on UK spec vehicles)
Tailgate lock actuator
Alarm RF Module.
It also internally powers PL8 on the BECM power board which is the Lock/Unlock for the rear doors.

In theory there isn't anything there that once the EKA has been input that should stop the vehicle from starting. Yes, not having the RF module working will stop you from resyncing the key - but as soon as the EKA has been entered sucessfully, then it should start anyway. (unless there is another undocumented internal feed from F15 in the BECM that has something to do with the starting - but I'm not home with a spare power board in front of me so can't check!)

I guess the first thing to do would be to unplug everything that is connected to F15 (they are all on C325 (pin 17), C323 (pin 4), and C361 (pin 6) from the BECM) C325 is the 18 way Grey connector on the front of the BECM, C323 is the 12 way Grey connector on the front of the BECM, and C361 is the pain as it's an 18 way white connector on the side of the BECM nearest the transmission tunnel.

They are all solid purple wires, and if I were to troubleshoot it, then I would disconnect the the connectors and remove the pins above and then try it with nothing connected ans see if the fuse still blows. If it doesn't, then I'd reconnect the pins one at a time to narrow down what supply the fault it on, and then work down the chain from there.

If it still blows with all the external connections to F15 removed, then it must be an internal problem in the BECM (probably on the power board) - and you would either have to send it away to be looked at and repaired/replaced - or if you can get hold of another power board, then you can swap them out yourself.

I have heard before of problems with both the tailgate solenoid motor having failed and basically causing a short circuit - or wiring problems, mostly to the interior lights - where a wire insulation has chafed and then shorted to the bodywork.

It could also be an issue in the wiring loom in the RH sill where the feed to the RH/Front/Load Space lamps, tailgate lock actuator, and the RF unit all splice together. When I first bought my RR, there had been water leaks inside the vehicle (blocked sunroof drain I think) and the RH sill had about an inch of water in it, which doesn't do any good for splices in wiring looms!

Hope this helps,
Marty

Click to expand...

Marty - I love you!!
Haven't got my replacement door locks yet - but had the morning off and it just didn't make sense to me why Fuse 15 blowing would disable the engine or stop me entering the EKA code. So printed off your message and went out to investigate.
Basically fuse 15 was blowing more or less when I connected the battery. The interior lights would come on when I opened the door, then there would be a brief smell of bonfires, lights out - fuse blown. So I took the BECM cover off the front and could see the 2 grey connectors C325 & C323. Couldn't of course see C361 hidden away and buried to the side so was praying that that wouldn't be the culprit. I unplugged both grey connectors - put a new fuse in - and no blow. Plugged back C325 - still no blow. Went to plug C323 back in and noticed there was a miniscule bit of muck (like a bit of brown dried leaf) on the face of the connector. Blew this off and plugged it back in. Still fuse 15 stayed with me.
Then thought I'd try the ignition to see if it blew - it didn't - and the engine started!! Didn't even have to enter an EKA code!
Still not sure why this would have disabled the engine - 'leaves on the track' maybe.
Many many thanks Marty.
Will still have to fit the 2 new front locks as they are both burnt out - and when that's done I'll splash out on a new updated RF receiver.
Will update how that goes.
Rear tailgate lock ok - and according to my manual that is fed by Fuse 14 along with the rear central door locking.

Use BrianDSE remote 12V switch trick on the RF receiver. Costs a few quid.