Series 2 Early 2.25 litre diesel valve, guide and spring combination

Stretch · Oct 9, 2017

G'day folks,

In my search for "original" configurations I seem to have shot myself in the tootsie again.

In ye olde greene booke there's a who heap of trouble about making sure that the exhaust valves match the correct type of valve guide and then the types of valve springs are correct for that combination too - and then there's a bit about with or with out the shims fitted under the valve guide...

...note I've left this vague and intriguing just to check you - cos you'll either know about this or not (!)

Question is:

Does anyone have a list of part numbers for the old configuration => early exhaust valve + internal sealing type guide + internal seal + shims for under exhaust guide + correct valve springs?

(Inlet and exhaust please)

Whilst I have a pretty good idea of what I think these part numbers should be I'd like confirmation please (I figure posting up of the part numbers I have at this stage may lead to confusion)

Note: Only early 2.25 diesel information req'd

jamesmartin · Oct 9, 2017

inlet guide 511837, sealing ring 247186,valve 527240,spring 568550,collet 268293 spring cup 268292
ex guide 511838,sealing ring 233419, packing washer 230062, valve 550198

Stretch · Oct 9, 2017

jamesmartin said:
inlet guide 511837, sealing ring 247186,valve 527240,spring 568550,collet 268293 spring cup 268292
ex guide 511838,sealing ring 233419, packing washer 230062, valve 550198

Thanks for that - now the real problem begins

(Sneaky but I didn't mention it before)

I can't tell if the new version of the exhaust valve 550198 is actually STC1127 or not - and whilst I can buy (and have bought) STC1127 if that's an upgraded valve or not - any idea?

Stretch · Oct 9, 2017

Oh yeah for the sake of clarity - in an ideal world I'd compare new with old. Problem is I have no old

I went balls out Nelly for a replacement head with the big injector holes so I can have the correct clamp down injectors (which will look so nice) but as I don't have any old bits I'm trying to figure it all out from the books...

jamesmartin · Oct 9, 2017

Stretch said:
Thanks for that - now the real problem begins

(Sneaky but I didn't mention it before)

I can't tell if the new version of the exhaust valve 550198 is actually STC1127 or not - and whilst I can buy (and have bought) STC1127 if that's an upgraded valve or not - any idea?

stc1127 is a direct replacement for all the earlier 2.25 exhaust valves

Stretch · Oct 10, 2017

jamesmartin said:
stc1127 is a direct replacement for all the earlier 2.25 exhaust valves

Great stuff thanks for that.

The next problem seems to be the valve springs.

All of the pictures I've seen of 568550 have stripes of red paint as a marking - according to the book this means they are the later type springs that go with the external stem seal configuration where the exhaust valve stem does not have the shim fitted under

Unfortunately, in my experience with Land Rover so far, it might be that that number was used for two types (?)

The number before 568550 was 276609 - that was also a double (anti-vibration) spring assembly - that's the one that I think can be safely assumed to be the first correct version. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any old stock of that version available anymore.

########

This might mean I have to dismantle a brand new head and change the valve guides to the external seal types

########

As you might imagine I don't really want to do that. I would like to understand why the shim was omitted and the spring was changed for the external seal system just in case the most modern valve spring version (single coil) will actually fit the existing system with out any trouble...

jamesmartin · Oct 10, 2017

Stretch said:
Great stuff thanks for that.

The next problem seems to be the valve springs.

All of the pictures I've seen of 568550 have stripes of red paint as a marking - according to the book this means they are the later type springs that go with the external stem seal configuration where the exhaust valve stem does not have the shim fitted under

Unfortunately, in my experience with Land Rover so far, it might be that that number was used for two types (?)

The number before 568550 was 276609 - that was also a double (anti-vibration) spring assembly - that's the one that I think can be safely assumed to be the first correct version. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any old stock of that version available anymore.

########

This might mean I have to dismantle a brand new head and change the valve guides to the external seal types

########

As you might imagine I don't really want to do that. I would like to understand why the shim was omitted and the spring was changed for the external seal system just in case the most modern valve spring version (single coil) will actually fit the existing system with out any trouble...

you just use the later tdi single spring err4640

Stretch · Oct 10, 2017

jamesmartin said:
you just use the later tdi single spring err4640

Yep I've got a new set ready to go in but when reading the green book there was a load of grief =>

225 diesel valve guide and spring problem.JPG

So assuming the valve guide shims have been fitted do I need to remove them to fit ERR4640 single coil springs? It is clear for the new generation double springs (probably 568550) this needs to be done - the book says - but for the even newer generation single coil springs is it also necessary?

(And why was it necessary in the first place)

jamesmartin · Oct 10, 2017

Stretch said:
Yep I've got a new set ready to go in but when reading the green book there was a load of grief =>

View attachment 133225

So assuming the valve guide shims have been fitted do I need to remove them to fit ERR4640 single coil springs? It is clear for the new generation double springs (probably 568550) this needs to be done - the book says - but for the even newer generation single coil springs is it also necessary?

(And why was it necessary in the first place)

i wouldnt think its necessary at all valve spring wise

Stretch · Oct 11, 2017

jamesmartin said:
i wouldnt think its necessary at all valve spring wise

I agree - which makes me wonder why it was ever mentioned in the book

I mean the distance of travel of the valve is determined by the camshaft lobe + push rod + rocker arm. The valve caps are the same - have been used forever in many different engine configurations - collets too...

...the only situation (I can think of) where perhaps the relative height of the valve stem might make a difference is when you've got valve bounce and the spring compresses to such an extent that the retainer hits the stem. Whether the spring can / will compress to that extent is not clear. (I'm thinking unlikely)

The only other aspect that might make a difference is the presence of the inner spring in the double valve spring configuration - under extreme compression it could perhaps foul the stem if the newer double spring version had a slightly thicker inner spring gauge.

DarrenHS3 · Oct 11, 2017

what are the valve guide shims for anyway ? is it just because the inner spring is shorter (would make sense) and it needs a leg up, so to speak ?

almost certainly removed the inner spring to give clearance for the neoprene valve stem seal. modern metallurgy would make the benefit of twin spring setup redundant anyway

Stretch · Oct 11, 2017

DarrenHS3 said:
what are the valve guide shims for anyway ? is it just because the inner spring is shorter (would make sense) and it needs a leg up, so to speak ?

almost certainly removed the inner spring to give clearance for the neoprene valve stem seal. modern metallurgy would make the benefit of twin spring setup redundant anyway

I don't know why the shims were / are fitted for the early valve stems - I was hoping someone would know

1965 series 2a station wagon 225 diesel head parts.png

The shim is item 6 in the picture above. It isn't wide enough to be sitting under the valve spring - it is (as described in the test in the picture shown earlier in the thread) fitted under the valve stem.

According to the parts list "number 6" has 20 of them fitted to one head => that's 5 shims under four exhaust valve stems (I don't think that's correct either)

######

As for the springs they are of the same length when uncompressed - that's one of the checks you are meant to make when inspecting as well as them not being able to come apart - they are meant to fit nicely together.

Series 2 Early 2.25 litre diesel valve, guide and spring combination

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