Disco 1 Discovery 1 Accelerator/Engine Issue

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DiscoveryNewbie

Member
Posts
21
Location
County Down
Hi All,

I have just bought a 95 Discovery xs 2.5 tdi auto, My father in law bought it a few weeks ago in England (I am in Northern Ireland) for a project but has changed his mind so I took it off his hands. It has an issue tho!!

As I said the car was bought in England and driven to the ferry and it broke down 2 miles from the house, so it drove over 400 miles without issue then suddenly it started to loose power (was just barely ticking over) so it needed towed the last 2 miles. It looks like the car had been laying up for a bit before he bought it.

Now when I start it it drives fine and ticks over fine for about 30 seconds to a minute then it just looses all power, smokes and just barely ticks over, it also surges from time to time and the engine light comes on and off. When I press on the accelerator basically nothing happens (there sometimes is a slight change in revs)

Here is a video of what I described - https://photos.app.goo.gl/wdNAGdg6o5c6u9QC9

I have also noticed that there is a little nub on the accelerator that looks like it should stay tight to the accelerator movement but it doesn't its goes slack when I press it, it is attached to some sort of a bellows in the engine, here is a picture, If anyone know what this is can you please let me know. Picture below
Acc_Nub.jpg




Any advice would be amazing, this is my first time working on a landrover so I am a bit of a Newbie, but excited to learn!!

All the best,
Aaron
 
Brilliant, thanks for the info discool, at least that is one mystery sorted!!

Good idea Adrian, what would be the best way to do that? would I need to remove the lift pump from the tank or is there a simpler way?
 
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Ok so I have an update.

I decided I would empty out the sedimentor and change the fuel filter just to make sure at least the fuel coming to the engine was ok. I took off the sedimentor bowl and there was quite a bit of crud in it so I cleaned it all out, filled it with diesel and put it back on, then removed the old fuel filter, filled the new filter with diesel put it on. I open the bleed screw and started to pump the hand pump at the lift pump, I must have pumped it a 100 times (I had the crank turned to the best position) but nothing, no fuel coming through the bleed screw. I tryed starting the engine to see would that draw the fuel through but it didn't, it just used whatever fuel was in the filter then conked out. I filled the fuel filter with diesel again and pumped by hand again but nothing, Is there a trick i'm missing?
Any help would be really appreciated!!
 
If you're confident that the lift pump cam was in the right place, then the First thing to try is a new lift pump - buy a delphi - not a cheapo br*tpart - ask how I know... :rolleyes: - also check the spill pipe connections on the injectors - BUT be careful near injector #4 - it has a sensor in for the EDC, and if this fails you're potentially in a world of pain as they are NLA :mad:

Third thing is to check the fuel connections on the tank - also known to fail at the most inopportune moment :mad: :D

It's also worth putting a piece of clear pipe in the fuel system - from #1 spill back to the pump - or anywhere you choose, as this will show up air in the fuel, which is less than ideal ;)
 
DiscoveryNewbie said:
Also a quick question, what is this unit? It is making a loud buzzing noise (Sorry if this is a silly question) -
View attachment 175949

Thanks
Click to expand...

As you have worked out, it is the FIP - the loud buzzing noise could be two things - the first is, hopefully, that it has no diesel in, and is therefore louder than it should be - the second is that the FIP is at the end of its life:( .... However, even a brand new one will buzz to some extent :rolleyes: - so how loud is it ?!?!??:confused: ( how many miles has it done ?)

DiscoveryNewbie said:
but I thought the older 300tdi engines had a different type
Click to expand...

The autos gained a reputation for being slow, and LR increased the engine power from 112 to 122 HP by fitting EDC ..... My own auto was so equipped when I bought it, but when #4 injector failed, I changed the FIP (and injectors) to standard, fitted a full width intercooler, and had it tuned to 145 HP by someone who knows what they are doing :) The EDC system went in the bin :p

I'm pleased to report I now have a more driveable, more powerful, and more reliable auto, which hopefully should last me out - though the torque converter might let the smoke out at some point :rolleyes: .....
 
DiscoveryNewbie said:
Thanks Disco1BFG!!

I have seen some people mention loosening the banjo bolt and cranking the car to remove air, anyone know if this would work?
Click to expand...

The "trick" I favour is to slightly loosen #1 injector pipe, and turn the engine over .... BUT - :eek: be warned ! :eek: - Diesel fuel at 200 bar will spoil your day :eek::eek::eek: - so ..... take precautions - wear decent gloves and eye protection as an absolute minimum, and only crack the nut slightly...... Clearly, you do this at your own risk!

What you'll see if it works, is a load of tiny bubbles in the derv ..... as soon as they stop ( a few seconds ), tighten the union, and bob is hopefully your mothers brother ;)
 
DiscoveryNewbie said:
I see now that this is a fuel injector pump, but I thought the older 300tdi engines had a different type. Mine is a 95 300dti
Click to expand...
As Disco1BFG has said, most autos were/are EDC i.e. electronic diesel control (or somesuch) i.e. drive-by-wire, whereas the manuals were mechanical, old fashioned diesel/fuel injection. This upped the power a bit to cope with power losses through the autobox. Export models were so equipped apparently. The EDC have fuel lift pumps in the tank the manuals have a lift pump on the side of the engine . But the models were all called 300tdi, unhelpfully.
Disco1BFG, I like what you did to your auto's system. Wish I could do it to my TD5! If you are worried about your torque converter, why not use the V8 one, apparently you could make one up yourself or get Ashcroft to sell you one. I've considered doing this for my TD5 and now I think it might be leaking ATF, I am thinking even harder about it. Apparently gives better fuel consumption as well as making it more driveable. If it wasn't something people wanted or was workable, I don't think you could get them. might be even easier for D1s.
 
Stanleysteamer said:
Disco1BFG, I like what you did to your auto's system
Click to expand...

Thanks :) - it was a case of £1k to have a new number four injector made from scratch (FFS!!!) or do what I did for considerably less - I have to have an auto for medical reasons.... and there ain't no way I'm having a modern POS with all that electronikery malarky - ask me how I know :mad:

Stanleysteamer said:
The EDC have fuel lift pumps in the tank the manuals have a lift pump on the side of the engine
Click to expand...

Pretty sure you'll find LP is on the side of the engine on all 300 Tdi's :)

Stanleysteamer said:
If you are worried about your torque converter, why not use the V8 one
Click to expand...

When it lets the smoke out, the AT will be rebuilt with the '24 internals, and the large V8 converter will be fitted too - I have the converter, "in stock" already :):) .... TBH, having done 30K miles with 145 HP thrust into it o_O - I'm quite surprised the TQ hasn't let go of all its smoke already ..... and even more surprised the flex plate hasn't gone south ....

It's only a matter of time :rolleyes::D
 
Disco1BFG said:
I have to have an auto for medical reasons..
Click to expand...
Sympathise, mate, precisely why my wife has to have one and I had to have one for a while. My reason has now gone, but I have hung onto it. Do not own a D1 auto so accept your comment on 300tdis all having engine mounted lift pump. Someone else posted about this and no one else corrected it, so I reckoned it was right. My bad.
£1k for a new injector? Madness! Good for you and best of luck with the tranny!
 
Stanleysteamer said:
Sympathise, mate, precisely why my wife has to have one and I had to have one for a while. My reason has now gone, but I have hung onto it. Do not own a D1 auto so accept your comment on 300tdis all having engine mounted lift pump. Someone else posted about this and no one else corrected it, so I reckoned it was right. My bad.
£1k for a new injector? Madness! Good for you and best of luck with the tranny!
Click to expand...
I had noticed the mistake but thought you'd spot the LP in the photo on a second take. It is clearly visible, (lift pump), in the photo posted by @DiscoveryNewbie half a dozen or so back, so yes indeed, they do have an engine driven lift pump.
My Disco is manual and as such has none of the electrikery bull5hit bits, why they would seek to complicate a simple issue is beyond me, I know they thought they had good reason, but most electronics on vehicles degrade with age and can be a PITA. I'd be looking for a non edc pump to keep it simple.
 
Thank you all for the comments, sorry for the late reply I was away on holidays and just back!!

Disco1BFG - I have some good news I ran a fuel pipe from the lift pump to a can of diesel (By passing the fuel tank) and the the engine ran perfectly it revs great so the is obviously air getting in on that line somewhere. Thankfully the FIP seems fine, My next job is to run a 8mm rubber fuel pipe directly from the fuel tank to the lift pump by passing the sedimenter, This car will be run on good fuel and as it is a project fro me I will only be driving it weekends. I like what you did with your auto, If the injectors ever give problems it definitely an option.

The only other issue now is it seems to be smoking, greyish smoke that wasn't there before the initial issue!! The Joys!!
 
You may find that the fuel tank sender union is just a lump of rust like mine and will destroy the pipe getting it undone also may have to grind the screws off that hold the cover plate on. check it out before you start it might possibly be where the airs getting drawn in thru pin holes.
 
Hey Mr Glee,

Yeah I have taken off the cover plate and the the bolts joining to the unions are rusted quite badly. Do you happen to know which pipe is to the lift pump and which is the return pipe? Pipe 1 or 2 see drawing -
20190501_130933.jpg
 
If you clean the plastic bend on the sender should be arrows to show flow direction.
IMG_20190423_162047.jpg
just one other thing are you sure your lift pump is good mine also ran from a can ok but couldn't pull the fuel up fast enough from the tank due to a faulty check/one way valve inside the lift pump if you remove it and put your thumb over the inlet and operate the cam lever should feel a strong vacuum do the same for the outlet should feel pressure.
 
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