classic abs brake nightmares !!

i'm just finishing off the re-build of my rangie but the brakes are playing up big time i've fitted new front calipers and copper/braided lines right through, it all seemed to bleed up ok but the abs light is constantly on now!
brake pump runs for about the right length of time and doesn't run again soon after, no leaks,
i did a few brake tests on the gravel round my yard and given a good stab all 4 wheels lock up and as they lock the pedal goes about halfway down with a series of fast 'clicks??'
any ideas?
i'm gonna go right through it again tomorrow night starting with sensors, just hoping somebody has an idea that might help as i'm sposed to be picking up a 2 tonne boulder from wales on saturday but still need an mot

On the ABS models, starting point for almost ALL brake feel niggles is to revisit the bleeding procedure and do it EXACTLY like the book says with a pressure ez-bleed, after fully depressurising the system, ignition off, pumping the pedal about 60 times!
As for the ABS lamp; if it still stays on or flickers after a decent bleeding, check the conectors for the sensors on all four corners; and if still flickers or stays on; then pull the rear hubs and clean the ABS sensor rings of any and all iron filings and brake dust.

From the description though, hard to say if there is much wrong; wheels should lock, and when the abs kicks in, it will pulse through the pedal; so it may be that a longer / faster road test is needed to get a better idea of if/what might be up with it, though pedal travel would seem a lot; mine, when properly bled through only would only move about 1/4 the way to the carpet.

thanks for that teflon, i'm standing here spanner in hand now so i'll try to bleed her through again, just as well i buy brake fluid in gallons then pull rear hubs, i already set front ones. problem is it's hard to give her a decent run with no tax n ticket so can only rag her about in my yard
i;ll let you know what happens, if anything....

right, update time... i had a bloody nightmare getting the rear sensors out took me most of last night they seem in one piece so cleaned em all up and re-set them against rings, rechecked front sensors were seated properly then spent about 4 hours fruitlessy trying to bleed the brakes but without result.
i took somebody with me tonight to help out with the bleeding and now seem to have a nice hard pedal although the pump runs if i press pedal down 2-3 times at standstill
i did numerous brake tests from 30 mph on the gravel and pedal didn't judder or lose travel.
but and it's a biggun for the mot, the bloody abs light is still on :doh: i haven't got a clue where to start looking...
the brake pump seems a lot noisier than i remember it being last year when car was on the road but i guess it could be anything electrical??
does anybody know how to read the fault codes on the abs?
i really need to get it mot'd asap any help muchly appriciated

rustyrangie said:

does anybody know how to read the fault codes on the abs?
i really need to get it mot'd asap any help muchly appriciated

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You can get a blink code from the ABS ECU; it is quite easy.

It's been posted a few times before but here is a refresher.

1 - Remove the ABS warning light relay (under the front passenger seat)
2 - Pull out the blue ABS diagnostic plug then bridge the black/pink wire with the black wire.
3 - Turn ignition on; the ABS light should come on.
4 - After approx. 5 seconds the light will go out and the blink cycle will start. Just count the blink cycles and write them down - that is the blink code.
5 - Run the test several times as the ECU can store numerous fault codes.
6 - Each code os cleared when the bridge is disconected from the diagnostic plug.

For a more detailed description and fault codes look in Haynes.

If you are happy the sensors are good and the wiring is in order check your wheel bearings and earthing on the ABS system.

you had the same idea as me kev, problem is i can't find the right relay for abs light haynes says green base under seat, the only green one i can find is in the passenger footwell but the wires are a different coluor to those quoted in the link to bruces abs diagnostics page i dunno whether to pull it anyhow and try it
gerrin a bit fed up as i've spent 9 months rebuilding the bleedin thing and it's all done cept for the bloody abs

went ahead and tried it anyhow and it worked ok, except the first blink code is not in the manual 2-3 apart from that it is still chucking out 2-12 code which i should of sorted by re-setting the sensore he other day but if anyone knows what 2-3 means i'd be vey grateful

Can't say I know what code 2-3 means but at a guess it likely to be a wiring fault. It might be worth checking all the visible wiring for signs of damage/loose or damaged connectors and also cleaning all the earth points. If I find what it means I'll let you know.

I found a reference to code 2-3; it indicates a possible problem with the pump. Check wiring and the earth.

nice one cheers kev,
i guess it may have been from before the rebuild as the pump didn't have any iner wing left to sit on i've cleared all the codes and given it a proper drive. car drives great, hydrolic brake circuit spot on but still no abs and got an abs light with code 4-14 also not in any reference i have here i'm over in me workshop now so gonna go right through the loom and make sure its all ok but any pointers to 4-14 much appriciated

can't i just take the bulb outa the dash for the mot and sort problem at my leisure?

rustyrangie said:

can't i just take the bulb outa the dash for the mot and sort problem at my leisure?

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I'm surprised you've waited this long before considering that idea....

he he... i do like to try to do things proper first, bodge later

rustyrangie said:

nice one cheers kev,
i guess it may have been from before the rebuild as the pump didn't have any iner wing left to sit on i've cleared all the codes and given it a proper drive. car drives great, hydrolic brake circuit spot on but still no abs and got an abs light with code 4-14 also not in any reference i have here i'm over in me workshop now so gonna go right through the loom and make sure its all ok but any pointers to 4-14 much appriciated

can't i just take the bulb outa the dash for the mot and sort problem at my leisure?

Click to expand...

4 -14 is front left sensor resistance too high or wiring broken; says check wiring or replace sensor.

As for removing bulb - well maybe, depends how shrp the tester is and how much he/she knows about Range Rovers.

ere you're getting a bit good at this kev swapped sensor for another front one i had that was suspect, cleared that fault but gave me another, so thinking i was on the right track i managed to persuade one of the sensors from the old rear axle i swapped a while ago and BINGO! sorted, wire's a bit long but everything working spot on now thanks for your help mate, i looks like the diagnostic codes on the page i found were wrong for me rangie gonna polish it tonight now... so the mud washes off easier

rustyrangie said:

ere you're getting a bit good at this kev

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In the time I've had my RangieI've had lots of practice at fault finding - ABS, fuel injection, ignition, cooling etc and then there's welding and just, well, stuff if you know what I mean.

Anyway, glad you got it sorted; I've found that most problems come down to something relatively small and simple. The hard part is finding it - and the patience to keep at it 'til it's sorted.

I know this isn't a reply, but I don't know how to start a new thread :s sorry!
I'm also having a nightmare with my abs, I've replaced all my disks calipers and pads (including those infernal sensor rings on the rear, £197 each from landrover!!!) and now bleeding the brakes is giving me a bigger headache!
I've followed the Haynes book of lies, with the depressurisation, and got to the part on bleeding the hydrostatic circuit. I've been using a vacuum bleeder, and I've done all four corners and got a decent pedal, but upon turning the ignition on, I get nothing from the abs pump. I've no warning light and the brakes do work (abeit a little spongy, but I figured that they just need bedding in, but this poses a problem coz I've no tax or test!) I've bled the pump, but then following the manual it says to bleed the sphere Thingy whose name escapes me, but the pump makes no sound whatsoever... Is this normal? The pump has a live feed, but she's been stood for five years. Any clues? Or can I just ignore it and not have abs? Or does this effect the whole braking system?

Help!!

yes if they are not clued up on classics lol

Have you given it enough of a run for the lights to go out as normal , after sitting over night it take about 100 yards for mine to go out and about 15 mph.

after its been used that day the go out alot quicker and with it running slower.

ABS light should extuinguish at 5mph

yes yes but its not a perfect world is it K-man

The light goes out as soon as the engine fires. It illuminates as the key is turned to the auxiliary position, but as soon as you turn it past that point it extinguishes. I've got now to the point now where the pedal is rock hard, the front brakes bleed normally but when I open the bleed nipples on the rear, there is no loss of pressure... I've traced the brake lines back and opened them up at intervals, but still no fluid, until eventually I traced it back to the master cylinder where I completely removed the rear brake lines, still no loss of pressure and no brake fluid! What the heck do I do now?
Do I need a new master cylinder? Or does this all boil down to that blasted ABS pump? And if so, does anyone have a working one that I could buy?