Cam shaft issue?

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Yetidude83

Member
Posts
11
Location
Shropshire
  1. So I've recently had some work done on my 200tdi, which included a new cam belt and general check of engine.
    Then driving it the other day I noticed I was loosing power, got home to find engine oil pi##ing out of the drain hole at the bottom of the timing cover.
    Checked dip stick to find oil not even registering on it.
    Garage has now told me that the end of the cam shaft has snapped off?
    Can any of you knowledgeable mechanic's tell me how this is possible?
    Help please
 
its a strange one as the cam isnt weak, too long a bolt or hydraulicing securing pulley flange to the cam could crack the cam but you shouldnt need to remove bolt or flange during a cam belt change, only if changing the seal
 
Yetidude83 said:
  1. So I've recently had some work done on my 200tdi, which included a new cam belt and general check of engine.
    Then driving it the other day I noticed I was loosing power, got home to find engine oil pi##ing out of the drain hole at the bottom of the timing cover.
    Checked dip stick to find oil not even registering on it.
    Garage has now told me that the end of the cam shaft has snapped off?
    Can any of you knowledgeable mechanic's tell me how this is possible?
    Help please
Click to expand...

hi mate

think i’ve dropped a clanger , should have asked if u have a discovery or a defender ,

have put a link in ur other post for both sections, but there are members here who know them very well

will get my coat :rolleyes:
 
Screenshot_20171109-135013.png

This is the image the garage has sent me (im away with work now)
 
gstuart said:
hi

know ur considerably more experianced than me, do u think the engine is salvable due the cam snapping like that

would have thought that’s down to the garages error
Click to expand...
it hasnt snapped cam pulley securing bolt has come undone letting pulley come off, whether it was left loose or other i cant say , it may well need another cam as keyway could be ripped out
 
jamesmartin said:
it hasnt snapped cam pulley securing bolt has come undone letting pulley come off, whether it was left loose or other i cant say , it may well need another cam as keyway could be ripped out
Click to expand...

thks, was also wondering if the followers may have dropped , but of course abit of an unknown until it’s stripped down

not the kind of thing u expect after trusting a garage to do the work for u
 
gstuart said:
thks, was also wondering if the followers may have dropped , but of course abit of an unknown until it’s stripped down

not the kind of thing u expect after trusting a garage to do the work for u
Click to expand...
depends how far cam has moved back ,followers would drop off the lobes easily if enough,the pulley is what stops cam been able to move back
 
jamesmartin said:
depends how far cam has moved back ,followers would drop off the lobes easily if enough,the pulley is what stops cam been able to move back
Click to expand...

thks james and most appreciated , fingers crossed the garage will repair it all foc , really feel sorry for the op
 
The garage has said its probably going to be 12hours of labour plus the parts to fix!
Spitting rivets isn't the word!
I hadn't even done 150 miles since picking it up from them doing the work!
What I want to know is if it has snapped off like the image they've sent me (im not a mechanic so not sure how it should look) would it have still been able to drive?
Because the garage drove it onto there trailer when they picked it up?
I just wonder if they are trying it on, as I'm not a mechanic.
I appreciate all the replies guys.
 
Yetidude83 said:
The garage has said its probably going to be 12hours of labour plus the parts to fix!
Spitting rivets isn't the word!
I hadn't even done 150 miles since picking it up from them doing the work!
What I want to know is if it has snapped off like the image they've sent me (im not a mechanic so not sure how it should look) would it have still been able to drive?
Because the garage drove it onto there trailer when they picked it up?
I just wonder if they are trying it on, as I'm not a mechanic.
I appreciate all the replies guys.
Click to expand...
There is a set bolt that holds the cam sprocket in place, as @jamesmartin has said it does not look to the experienced eye that the end has snapped off the camshaft but rather the sprocket securing set bolt has come out or broken off.
It appears that the cam has moved in toward the back of the engine disengaging the sealing diameter section from the oil seal, that explains the oil, if it was in fact still running when you got it home, (you state they drove it onto the trailer to take it to the workshop), that would indicate that the cam lobes were still engaging the followers so no great harm there.
The real issue is if the belt sprocket has chewed out the cam keyway but that might still be serviceable. It is not unheard of for these sprocket retaining bolts to break, if it was a bit suspect when the workshop changed the belt the breakage could be down to an overtensioned timing belt, but the bolt must have been weak and the sprocket would have had to have lost it's neat fit on the camshaft nose for a tight belt to break the bolt off.
If they can get out the broken bit of bolt, clean up the cam end, fix the internal thread in the cam, fit a new seal, replacement cam sprocket, new bolt, new belt. The 12 hour labour estimate seems steep but then I'm not there to properly see the job, they may be covering something up but unless you're "in the know" it's hard to say, and you may never know. As one who has worked on vehicles for crust I understand everything that goes wrong with the vehicle for months after you do a job is the mechanics fault in the eyes of the owner, and that's just human to do that I guess, not a bad thing in itself, just an occupational hazard.
 
So I messaged the garage and mentioned what @Gazbo has said about the bolt coming loose.
They've now told me that the end of the cam shaft hasn't snapped off, but the bolt has come lose. Which in turn has damaged the key on the end of the shaft.
So they have said that who ever did the timing belt last time can't have torqued the bolt or put loctite on. (it's driven fine for the 3 years until these guys did the belt!? )
So another bit of info is the guy who picked it up (I'm away with work) told my dad it would be the oil seal hadn't seated properly when "he" did it. So next question is which oil seal would he be talking about?
Sorry for all questions but I don't want to get the wrong info before ringing them again.
Thankyou
 
Yetidude83 said:
So I messaged the garage and mentioned what @Gazbo has said about the bolt coming loose.
They've now told me that the end of the cam shaft hasn't snapped off, but the bolt has come lose. Which in turn has damaged the key on the end of the shaft.
So they have said that who ever did the timing belt last time can't have torqued the bolt or put loctite on. (it's driven fine for the 3 years until these guys did the belt!? )
So another bit of info is the guy who picked it up (I'm away with work) told my dad it would be the oil seal hadn't seated properly when "he" did it. So next question is which oil seal would he be talking about?
Sorry for all questions but I don't want to get the wrong info before ringing them again.
Thankyou
Click to expand...
I have not worked on a 200tdi, but I know that the bolt holding that camshaft sprocket would or should never have been needed to be undone to change the timing belt, from reading my workshop info I see they mention "O" rings behind the sprocket retainer plate and the washer, this tells me that on the inboard side of the camshaft sprocket is the oil seal interface diameter, so your oil leak was all about the bolt coming out and not at all about "the oil seal not seated properly". To be quite frank, if they can't come up with better than that, I'd be concerned that your vehicle is in the hands of "hacks" that have little idea what they're doing in this case, sounds as if you are being led, (maybe not intentionally), into a "you pay while we play" situation.
I could not accept that the camshaft was absolutely and irrepairably toast, but not seeing it up close it's a hard call, but if it was mine I'd be looking to recover it and keep the replacement parts bill down, (assuming there are still cams available for that engine).
I don't agree that you should just ditch the engine and fit another, to do that to an engine that was running fine prior to this episode seems to be just chucking your money and time away on something that may be in worse condition fundamentally than that you have.
Unfortunately for you, if you do not have the skills or knowledge or time to do the job yourself, you need to be in the hands of others, just hope they are skilled hands.
 
Yetidude83 said:
So I messaged the garage and mentioned what @Gazbo has said about the bolt coming loose.
They've now told me that the end of the cam shaft hasn't snapped off, but the bolt has come lose. Which in turn has damaged the key on the end of the shaft.
So they have said that who ever did the timing belt last time can't have torqued the bolt or put loctite on. (it's driven fine for the 3 years until these guys did the belt!? )
So another bit of info is the guy who picked it up (I'm away with work) told my dad it would be the oil seal hadn't seated properly when "he" did it. So next question is which oil seal would he be talking about?
Sorry for all questions but I don't want to get the wrong info before ringing them again.
Thankyou
Click to expand...
cam seal , its seated ok but damaged from pulley coming loose, your problem is bolt coming loose which they shouldnt and arent known too generally, the bolt does have 2 washers and 2 orings, its needs a new cam and that requires head off and front timing case,not a small job
 
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