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Bull Bars

Discussion in 'alt.fan.landrover' started by Eddie Green, Apr 10, 2005.

  1. Eddie Green

    Eddie Green Guest

    Can someone tell me the present law regarding Bull Bars, A Frames, etc. Are
    they permitted on new vehicles? to be fitted to existing vehicles ? and what
    about in France, is there any legislation there.
    Thanks.
    Eddie Green.


     
  2. Mark and Eddie hi,

    I can not speak for France or the UK but supposedly all European Union
    countries now apply the same rules and laws as specified under the common EU
    directives for road going vehicles and their specifications.

    So what applies here in Greece is that no vehicle is supposed to have any
    kind of increase of more than 5 cm on its factory specified dimensions.
    Bullbars or additional/reinforced bumpers are only allowed if they have a
    specific type approval for the vehicle they are mounted on and ONLY if the
    importer of the vehicle or the additional equipment (bullbar in our case)
    has filed a special notification of the type approval to the competent
    authorities (more precisely the Ministry of Transport and the MoT central
    authotiry for vehicular technical inspections. Those two authorities have to
    afterwards notify the Road and Highway Police so that they do not give
    tickets to drivers of vehicles fitted with those "improvements")

    Our club's advise to all owners of Land Rover vehicles with bullbars is to
    ALWAYS carry with them a copy of the type approval or the protocoled type
    approval notification filed by the importer of the vehicle or the bullbar
    with them so that they do not have a ticket issued to them in case of a road
    check or when they pass their MoT.

    I have had a very serious court case against me because of the bullbar
    fitted on my genuine 1994 evented Camel Trophy Discovery 200Tdi which was
    finally won because I had a letter from the central LR legal and technical
    departments specifying that CT vehicles were FACTORY fitted with the bullbar
    and other equipment and had type approval when they were issued their road
    registration number plates in the UK.

    Hope this helps

    Take care
    Pantelis Giamarellos
    LAND ROVER CLUB OF GREECE

    "MVP" <mr.nice@*nospam*softhome.net> wrote in message
    news:9v0i51hagf7u69fgu941tebs2rv0l396o8@4ax.com...
    > On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 07:31:20 +0000 (UTC), "Eddie Green"
    > <ed.green@btinternet.com> wrote:
    >
    > >Can someone tell me the present law regarding Bull Bars, A Frames, etc.

    Are
    > >they permitted on new vehicles? to be fitted to existing vehicles ? and

    what
    > >about in France, is there any legislation there.
    > >Thanks.
    > >Eddie Green.
    > >

    >
    > I've seen them fitted on new land rovers (defenders), proper ones too
    > not those plastic ones, so they must be legal, I don't know if you
    > have to prove some kind of need or not but as both are freely
    > available from many accessories dealers I can only assume that people
    > are buying them therefor they are legal and proper.
    >
    > I'm sure someone who knows what they are talking about will be along
    > promptly, and if someone can quote some legislation etc then I'll make
    > a page for it on my website as it's worth info in my view.
    >
    >
    > Regards.
    > Mark.
    > --
    > _________________________________________
    > 1984 110 CSW 2.5(na)D
    > (3,000 rivets flying in close formation)
    > www.4x4info.info
    > www.mvp-fine-art.co.uk
    > www.markvarleyphoto.co.uk
    > charity calendar project -
    > http://www.4x4info.info/calendar/
    > _________________________________________
    >
    >
    >
    > ................................................................
    > Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access
    > >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<<

    > -=Every Newsgroup - Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-
    >



     
  3. Nige

    Nige Guest

    Eddie Green wrote:
    > Can someone tell me the present law regarding Bull Bars, A Frames,
    > etc. Are they permitted on new vehicles? to be fitted to existing
    > vehicles ? and what about in France, is there any legislation there.
    > Thanks.
    > Eddie Green.


    Why do you want bullbars anyhow mate?

    I really cant see what purpose they serve for normal road driving. They can make any accident damage a
    fair bit worse & are not exactly good if you hit a pedestrian. I can see why they could be useful for off
    road driving.

    Anyone got any commenst about bullbars & have i missed the point etc?

    Nige

    --
    Subaru WRX (The Bitch)

    Series 3 Landrover 88" (Albert)

    '"They called him Jimmy the gent"


     
  4. Nige wrote:

    > Eddie Green wrote:
    >> Can someone tell me the present law regarding Bull Bars, A Frames,
    >> etc. Are they permitted on new vehicles? to be fitted to existing
    >> vehicles ? and what about in France, is there any legislation there.
    >> Thanks.
    >> Eddie Green.

    >
    > Why do you want bullbars anyhow mate?
    >
    > I really cant see what purpose they serve for normal road driving. They
    > can make any accident damage a fair bit worse & are not exactly good if
    > you hit a pedestrian. I can see why they could be useful for off road
    > driving.
    >
    > Anyone got any commenst about bullbars & have i missed the point etc?
    >


    Agree about exacerbating a pedestrian impact - not good in those situations.

    What they do provide is a decent mounting point for extra lighting which is
    always useful with a Landies headlamps.

    I've also had them prevent major damage when one of the local deer decided
    it was a rabbit and to try and outstare my Disco. Without the bullbars I'd
    have had to replace a lot of the front offside corner of the car. As was I
    had to take it through a carwash.

    As per anything, there are arguments for and against. Personally I'd like
    *something* up front to catch large vegetation on my motor, but that's
    mostly used for offroad work and so the "road driving" thing doesn't apply.

    P.

    --
    1992 200 TDI Disco - heavily modified
    1982 V8 Range Rover - heavily corroded
    2000 Rover 75 - heavily driven
    1993 Lexus LS400 - just plain heavy on fuel
     
  5. Ian Rawlings

    Ian Rawlings Guest

    On 2005-04-10, Paul S. Brown <landies@geekstuff.tv> wrote:

    > Agree about exacerbating a pedestrian impact - not good in those
    > situations.


    After some outcry in our wonderful objective unsensationalising media
    about child-killing bullbars the government did some research into it
    with the help of the various agencies that actually attend accidents
    and fix people up and so are in a position to know. After an argument
    in an unrelated newsgroup about bullbars I dug the report up and read
    it, I don't have it to hand now and can't be bothered to find it so if
    anyone's interested they can look for themselves.

    The gist of it was;

    * Bullbars have been implicated in a grand total of 3 deaths in the
    UK in one year, and only tipped the balance from almost certainly
    fatal to actually fatal,

    * On some 4x4s the Bullbars have caused a relatively minor increase in
    injury to accident victims,

    * On some 4x4s the Bullbars flex more than the vehicle itself and so
    are likely to have reduced injury to accident victims.

    * The potential for injury caused by the Bullbars is entirely
    dependent on the design of the Bullbars and the design of the
    vehicle on which they are mounted.

    Basically fitting Bullbars to a Defender isn't going to make one tiny
    iota of difference to someone you hit, it's the whacking great big 4x4
    with the chassis sticking out the front that'll kill them. A Toyota
    Rav-4 or a Volvo XC90 (or whatever it is) on the other hand is much
    less likely to kill someone than a Defender, fitting Bullbars to such
    soft-roaders is likely to cause extra injury but the statistics from
    the crash reports indicated that it wasn't significant.

    Hence they weren't banned in this country.

    People who worry about the morality of fitting Bullbars really
    shouldn't be driving Landrover products, they're not very nice things
    to hit people with, much worse than most of their competitors.
    Insurance industry figures released last year showed that across the
    whole of the UK, in accidents involving two vehicles in which one
    vehicle's occupants were killed, the surviving occupants were most
    likely to be driving a Defender. Much to my surprise this was
    trumpeted in the press that I saw as proof that the Defender is very
    safe, personally I'd say it shows the exact opposite! Post-BMW
    Discoveries and Range Rovers won't be any better.

    In addition to all that waffle, the majority of Bullbars are mounted
    at the base with bolts through the chassis and have a levering effect
    on those mount points. This means that a heavy impact on them is
    likely to put so much force on the mounting point that you risk
    tearing the chassis at that point, if the bolts or Bullbar don't break
    first. With vegetation and other such stuff that's not likely to make
    a difference, but if you are ever tempted to tie a tow rope to the
    Bullbar and pull something with it or be towed with it, you stand a
    good risk of causing some nasty damage to the vehicle or Bullbar.

    --
    For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert
     
  6. On or around Sun, 10 Apr 2005 17:16:05 +0100, "Nige"
    <nigel.inceFANNYFART@btinternet.com> enlightened us thusly:

    >Eddie Green wrote:
    >> Can someone tell me the present law regarding Bull Bars, A Frames,
    >> etc. Are they permitted on new vehicles? to be fitted to existing
    >> vehicles ? and what about in France, is there any legislation there.
    >> Thanks.
    >> Eddie Green.

    >
    >Why do you want bullbars anyhow mate?
    >
    >I really cant see what purpose they serve for normal road driving. They can make any accident damage a
    >fair bit worse & are not exactly good if you hit a pedestrian. I can see why they could be useful for off
    >road driving.
    >
    >Anyone got any commenst about bullbars & have i missed the point etc?


    mine looks better IMHO with the bar on it and it provides a good solid mount
    for the spotlamps.

    --
    Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
    Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
    face by frightening people in the street.
    from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
     
  7. Nige Hi,

    I totally agree with your on bullbars being both un-necessary and dangerous
    on vehicles that are used mainly on the road or for slight or medium off
    roading use.
    This is why I have removed it (along with the roofrack) from one of my two
    camels. The other one is being kept at 100% original state (down to its
    event battle scars) as a future classic vehicle.

    To get back to your point about bullbars I can also add that a chassis
    mounted bullbar will definately cause more damage to the vehicle it is
    mounted on in case on an accident since the chassis can get more easily bent
    and also bullbars tend to spread damage in a larger bodyshell area while
    vehicles without bullbars tend to have accident damage focused only in the
    "contact" area.

    They also signicicantly alter the way the vehicle handles because they add
    so much weight in front of the front axle.

    Take care
    Pantelis

    "Nige" <nigel.inceFANNYFART@btinternet.com> wrote in message
    news:3bt1q4F6m283sU1@individual.net...
    > Eddie Green wrote:
    > > Can someone tell me the present law regarding Bull Bars, A Frames,
    > > etc. Are they permitted on new vehicles? to be fitted to existing
    > > vehicles ? and what about in France, is there any legislation there.
    > > Thanks.
    > > Eddie Green.

    >
    > Why do you want bullbars anyhow mate?
    >
    > I really cant see what purpose they serve for normal road driving. They

    can make any accident damage a
    > fair bit worse & are not exactly good if you hit a pedestrian. I can see

    why they could be useful for off
    > road driving.
    >
    > Anyone got any commenst about bullbars & have i missed the point etc?
    >
    > Nige
    >
    > --
    > Subaru WRX (The Bitch)
    >
    > Series 3 Landrover 88" (Albert)
    >
    > '"They called him Jimmy the gent"
    >
    >



     
  8. Paul Hi,

    you definately have a reason to have a bullbar then.
    Were the dear steaks nice???

    take care
    Pantelis

    "Paul S. Brown" <landies@geekstuff.tv> wrote in message
    news:s51oi2-gor.ln1@snoopy.intra.geekstuff.me.uk...
    > Nige wrote:
    >
    > > Eddie Green wrote:
    > >> Can someone tell me the present law regarding Bull Bars, A Frames,
    > >> etc. Are they permitted on new vehicles? to be fitted to existing
    > >> vehicles ? and what about in France, is there any legislation there.
    > >> Thanks.
    > >> Eddie Green.

    > >
    > > Why do you want bullbars anyhow mate?
    > >
    > > I really cant see what purpose they serve for normal road driving. They
    > > can make any accident damage a fair bit worse & are not exactly good if
    > > you hit a pedestrian. I can see why they could be useful for off road
    > > driving.
    > >
    > > Anyone got any commenst about bullbars & have i missed the point etc?
    > >

    >
    > Agree about exacerbating a pedestrian impact - not good in those

    situations.
    >
    > What they do provide is a decent mounting point for extra lighting which

    is
    > always useful with a Landies headlamps.
    >
    > I've also had them prevent major damage when one of the local deer decided
    > it was a rabbit and to try and outstare my Disco. Without the bullbars I'd
    > have had to replace a lot of the front offside corner of the car. As was I
    > had to take it through a carwash.
    >
    > As per anything, there are arguments for and against. Personally I'd like
    > *something* up front to catch large vegetation on my motor, but that's
    > mostly used for offroad work and so the "road driving" thing doesn't

    apply.
    >
    > P.
    >
    > --
    > 1992 200 TDI Disco - heavily modified
    > 1982 V8 Range Rover - heavily corroded
    > 2000 Rover 75 - heavily driven
    > 1993 Lexus LS400 - just plain heavy on fuel



     
  9. JD

    JD Guest

    Depends on the circumstances. In this area bullbars are regarded as almost
    essential even on vehicles driven 100% on the road. They change the damage
    from hitting a kangaroo from disabling in many cases to damage that leaves
    the vehicle still driveable, and if we are talking about the traditional
    Landrover design, damage is usually nonexistent, where without the bullbar
    at the minimum you have hundreds to thousands of dollars worth of panel
    damage, probably one or more damaged lights, and very likely crippling
    damage to the radiator, which on some very lightly travelled roads could be
    life threatening.
    Having said this, many modern vehicles simply do not have any structure that
    it is practical to attach the bullbar to, which is probably one reason why
    the majority of vehicles outside of town here are large four wheel drives
    or utilities.
    JD

    Pantelis Giamarellos wrote:

    > Nige Hi,
    >
    > I totally agree with your on bullbars being both un-necessary and
    > dangerous on vehicles that are used mainly on the road or for slight or
    > medium off roading use.
    > This is why I have removed it (along with the roofrack) from one of my two
    > camels. The other one is being kept at 100% original state (down to its
    > event battle scars) as a future classic vehicle.
    >
    > To get back to your point about bullbars I can also add that a chassis
    > mounted bullbar will definately cause more damage to the vehicle it is
    > mounted on in case on an accident since the chassis can get more easily
    > bent and also bullbars tend to spread damage in a larger bodyshell area
    > while vehicles without bullbars tend to have accident damage focused only
    > in the "contact" area.
    >
    > They also signicicantly alter the way the vehicle handles because they add
    > so much weight in front of the front axle.
    >
    > Take care
    > Pantelis
    >
    > "Nige" <nigel.inceFANNYFART@btinternet.com> wrote in message
    > news:3bt1q4F6m283sU1@individual.net...
    >> Eddie Green wrote:
    >> > Can someone tell me the present law regarding Bull Bars, A Frames,
    >> > etc. Are they permitted on new vehicles? to be fitted to existing
    >> > vehicles ? and what about in France, is there any legislation there.
    >> > Thanks.
    >> > Eddie Green.

    >>
    >> Why do you want bullbars anyhow mate?
    >>
    >> I really cant see what purpose they serve for normal road driving. They

    > can make any accident damage a
    >> fair bit worse & are not exactly good if you hit a pedestrian. I can see

    > why they could be useful for off
    >> road driving.
    >>
    >> Anyone got any commenst about bullbars & have i missed the point etc?
    >>
    >> Nige
    >>
    >> --
    >> Subaru WRX (The Bitch)
    >>
    >> Series 3 Landrover 88" (Albert)
    >>
    >> '"They called him Jimmy the gent"
    >>
    >>


     
  10. JD Hi,

    it is extremely nice to be able to drive in the open space and I am sure
    your bullbar really deserves its place in front of your car.
    But then again would it really be a wise choice to have it on a car that
    only sees open space and 'roos in its dreams?

    Take care
    Pantelis

    "JD" <jjd@SPAMLESS.com.au> wrote in message
    news:425a68ca@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
    > Depends on the circumstances. In this area bullbars are regarded as almost
    > essential even on vehicles driven 100% on the road. They change the damage
    > from hitting a kangaroo from disabling in many cases to damage that leaves
    > the vehicle still driveable, and if we are talking about the traditional
    > Landrover design, damage is usually nonexistent, where without the bullbar
    > at the minimum you have hundreds to thousands of dollars worth of panel
    > damage, probably one or more damaged lights, and very likely crippling
    > damage to the radiator, which on some very lightly travelled roads could

    be
    > life threatening.
    > Having said this, many modern vehicles simply do not have any structure

    that
    > it is practical to attach the bullbar to, which is probably one reason why
    > the majority of vehicles outside of town here are large four wheel drives
    > or utilities.
    > JD
    >
    > Pantelis Giamarellos wrote:
    >
    > > Nige Hi,
    > >
    > > I totally agree with your on bullbars being both un-necessary and
    > > dangerous on vehicles that are used mainly on the road or for slight or
    > > medium off roading use.
    > > This is why I have removed it (along with the roofrack) from one of my

    two
    > > camels. The other one is being kept at 100% original state (down to its
    > > event battle scars) as a future classic vehicle.
    > >
    > > To get back to your point about bullbars I can also add that a chassis
    > > mounted bullbar will definately cause more damage to the vehicle it is
    > > mounted on in case on an accident since the chassis can get more easily
    > > bent and also bullbars tend to spread damage in a larger bodyshell area
    > > while vehicles without bullbars tend to have accident damage focused

    only
    > > in the "contact" area.
    > >
    > > They also signicicantly alter the way the vehicle handles because they

    add
    > > so much weight in front of the front axle.
    > >
    > > Take care
    > > Pantelis
    > >
    > > "Nige" <nigel.inceFANNYFART@btinternet.com> wrote in message
    > > news:3bt1q4F6m283sU1@individual.net...
    > >> Eddie Green wrote:
    > >> > Can someone tell me the present law regarding Bull Bars, A Frames,
    > >> > etc. Are they permitted on new vehicles? to be fitted to existing
    > >> > vehicles ? and what about in France, is there any legislation there.
    > >> > Thanks.
    > >> > Eddie Green.
    > >>
    > >> Why do you want bullbars anyhow mate?
    > >>
    > >> I really cant see what purpose they serve for normal road driving. They

    > > can make any accident damage a
    > >> fair bit worse & are not exactly good if you hit a pedestrian. I can

    see
    > > why they could be useful for off
    > >> road driving.
    > >>
    > >> Anyone got any commenst about bullbars & have i missed the point etc?
    > >>
    > >> Nige
    > >>
    > >> --
    > >> Subaru WRX (The Bitch)
    > >>
    > >> Series 3 Landrover 88" (Albert)
    > >>
    > >> '"They called him Jimmy the gent"
    > >>
    > >>

    >



     
  11. JD

    JD Guest

    Pantelis,
    I agree - it may not be a wise choice - but the same comment can often be
    made about many choices made by car owners, probably the most obvious one
    being the size of cars, let alone the question of urban four wheel drives,
    so why single out bull bars? As an interesting sidelight on my previous
    post, the news this morning includes the discovery of a broken down car in
    Western Australia with the bodies of two men and their dog who had been
    dead from thirst for some time. This breakdown was not, apparently, due to
    animal damage, but from mechanical problems, but it does make the point.

    Legislative action against bullbars should be seen in the same light as as,
    for example, legislative action that requires all vehicles to be fitted
    with drinking water tanks. I suspect that certainly in this country the
    number of deaths from thirst after breakdowns would be similar to the
    number of pedestrian deaths due to bullbars - and in both cases the numbers
    are very small, with far more deaths being caused by other factors (but
    bearing in mind every accident is caused by a whole chain of factors).

    JD

    Pantelis Giamarellos wrote:

    > JD Hi,
    >
    > it is extremely nice to be able to drive in the open space and I am sure
    > your bullbar really deserves its place in front of your car.
    > But then again would it really be a wise choice to have it on a car that
    > only sees open space and 'roos in its dreams?
    >
    > Take care
    > Pantelis
    >
    > "JD" <jjd@SPAMLESS.com.au> wrote in message
    > news:425a68ca@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
    >> Depends on the circumstances. In this area bullbars are regarded as
    >> almost essential even on vehicles driven 100% on the road. They change
    >> the damage from hitting a kangaroo from disabling in many cases to damage
    >> that leaves the vehicle still driveable, and if we are talking about the
    >> traditional Landrover design, damage is usually nonexistent, where
    >> without the bullbar at the minimum you have hundreds to thousands of
    >> dollars worth of panel damage, probably one or more damaged lights, and
    >> very likely crippling damage to the radiator, which on some very lightly
    >> travelled roads could

    > be
    >> life threatening.
    >> Having said this, many modern vehicles simply do not have any structure

    > that
    >> it is practical to attach the bullbar to, which is probably one reason
    >> why the majority of vehicles outside of town here are large four wheel
    >> drives or utilities.
    >> JD
    >>
    >> Pantelis Giamarellos wrote:
    >>
    >> > Nige Hi,
    >> >
    >> > I totally agree with your on bullbars being both un-necessary and
    >> > dangerous on vehicles that are used mainly on the road or for slight or
    >> > medium off roading use.
    >> > This is why I have removed it (along with the roofrack) from one of my

    > two
    >> > camels. The other one is being kept at 100% original state (down to its
    >> > event battle scars) as a future classic vehicle.
    >> >
    >> > To get back to your point about bullbars I can also add that a chassis
    >> > mounted bullbar will definately cause more damage to the vehicle it is
    >> > mounted on in case on an accident since the chassis can get more easily
    >> > bent and also bullbars tend to spread damage in a larger bodyshell area
    >> > while vehicles without bullbars tend to have accident damage focused

    > only
    >> > in the "contact" area.
    >> >
    >> > They also signicicantly alter the way the vehicle handles because they

    > add
    >> > so much weight in front of the front axle.
    >> >
    >> > Take care
    >> > Pantelis
    >> >
    >> > "Nige" <nigel.inceFANNYFART@btinternet.com> wrote in message
    >> > news:3bt1q4F6m283sU1@individual.net...
    >> >> Eddie Green wrote:
    >> >> > Can someone tell me the present law regarding Bull Bars, A Frames,
    >> >> > etc. Are they permitted on new vehicles? to be fitted to existing
    >> >> > vehicles ? and what about in France, is there any legislation there.
    >> >> > Thanks.
    >> >> > Eddie Green.
    >> >>
    >> >> Why do you want bullbars anyhow mate?
    >> >>
    >> >> I really cant see what purpose they serve for normal road driving.
    >> >> They
    >> > can make any accident damage a
    >> >> fair bit worse & are not exactly good if you hit a pedestrian. I can

    > see
    >> > why they could be useful for off
    >> >> road driving.
    >> >>
    >> >> Anyone got any commenst about bullbars & have i missed the point etc?
    >> >>
    >> >> Nige
    >> >>
    >> >> --
    >> >> Subaru WRX (The Bitch)
    >> >>
    >> >> Series 3 Landrover 88" (Albert)
    >> >>
    >> >> '"They called him Jimmy the gent"
    >> >>
    >> >>

    >>


     
  12. cyberwraith

    cyberwraith Guest

    According to my insurance company the law is should your insurance company
    allow them great, otherwise no. I asked at my local LR specialist who agreed
    with this and therefore installed one on my 94 disco. Before you say he was
    just selling, he actually told me to check with the insurance company first!

    "MVP" <mr.nice@*nospam*softhome.net> wrote in message
    news:9v0i51hagf7u69fgu941tebs2rv0l396o8@4ax.com...
    > On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 07:31:20 +0000 (UTC), "Eddie Green"
    > <ed.green@btinternet.com> wrote:
    >
    >>Can someone tell me the present law regarding Bull Bars, A Frames, etc.
    >>Are
    >>they permitted on new vehicles? to be fitted to existing vehicles ? and
    >>what
    >>about in France, is there any legislation there.
    >>Thanks.
    >>Eddie Green.
    >>

    >
    > I've seen them fitted on new land rovers (defenders), proper ones too
    > not those plastic ones, so they must be legal, I don't know if you
    > have to prove some kind of need or not but as both are freely
    > available from many accessories dealers I can only assume that people
    > are buying them therefor they are legal and proper.
    >
    > I'm sure someone who knows what they are talking about will be along
    > promptly, and if someone can quote some legislation etc then I'll make
    > a page for it on my website as it's worth info in my view.
    >
    >
    > Regards.
    > Mark.
    > --
    > _________________________________________
    > 1984 110 CSW 2.5(na)D
    > (3,000 rivets flying in close formation)
    > www.4x4info.info
    > www.mvp-fine-art.co.uk
    > www.markvarleyphoto.co.uk
    > charity calendar project -
    > http://www.4x4info.info/calendar/
    > _________________________________________
    >
    >
    >
    > ................................................................
    > Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access
    > >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<<

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    >



     
  13. cyberwraith

    cyberwraith Guest

    My local LR garage told me to check with my insurance company, if they say
    it is ok then it is ok. So simply ask your insurance company.

    "MVP" <mr.nice@*nospam*softhome.net> wrote in message
    news:9v0i51hagf7u69fgu941tebs2rv0l396o8@4ax.com...
    > On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 07:31:20 +0000 (UTC), "Eddie Green"
    > <ed.green@btinternet.com> wrote:
    >
    >>Can someone tell me the present law regarding Bull Bars, A Frames, etc.
    >>Are
    >>they permitted on new vehicles? to be fitted to existing vehicles ? and
    >>what
    >>about in France, is there any legislation there.
    >>Thanks.
    >>Eddie Green.
    >>

    >
    > I've seen them fitted on new land rovers (defenders), proper ones too
    > not those plastic ones, so they must be legal, I don't know if you
    > have to prove some kind of need or not but as both are freely
    > available from many accessories dealers I can only assume that people
    > are buying them therefor they are legal and proper.
    >
    > I'm sure someone who knows what they are talking about will be along
    > promptly, and if someone can quote some legislation etc then I'll make
    > a page for it on my website as it's worth info in my view.
    >
    >
    > Regards.
    > Mark.
    > --
    > _________________________________________
    > 1984 110 CSW 2.5(na)D
    > (3,000 rivets flying in close formation)
    > www.4x4info.info
    > www.mvp-fine-art.co.uk
    > www.markvarleyphoto.co.uk
    > charity calendar project -
    > http://www.4x4info.info/calendar/
    > _________________________________________
    >
    >
    >
    > ................................................................
    > Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access
    > >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<<

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    >



     
  14. cyberwraith

    cyberwraith Guest

    test

    "MVP" <mr.nice@*nospam*softhome.net> wrote in message
    news:9v0i51hagf7u69fgu941tebs2rv0l396o8@4ax.com...
    > On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 07:31:20 +0000 (UTC), "Eddie Green"
    > <ed.green@btinternet.com> wrote:
    >
    >>Can someone tell me the present law regarding Bull Bars, A Frames, etc.
    >>Are
    >>they permitted on new vehicles? to be fitted to existing vehicles ? and
    >>what
    >>about in France, is there any legislation there.
    >>Thanks.
    >>Eddie Green.
    >>

    >
    > I've seen them fitted on new land rovers (defenders), proper ones too
    > not those plastic ones, so they must be legal, I don't know if you
    > have to prove some kind of need or not but as both are freely
    > available from many accessories dealers I can only assume that people
    > are buying them therefor they are legal and proper.
    >
    > I'm sure someone who knows what they are talking about will be along
    > promptly, and if someone can quote some legislation etc then I'll make
    > a page for it on my website as it's worth info in my view.
    >
    >
    > Regards.
    > Mark.
    > --
    > _________________________________________
    > 1984 110 CSW 2.5(na)D
    > (3,000 rivets flying in close formation)
    > www.4x4info.info
    > www.mvp-fine-art.co.uk
    > www.markvarleyphoto.co.uk
    > charity calendar project -
    > http://www.4x4info.info/calendar/
    > _________________________________________
    >
    >
    >
    > ................................................................
    > Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access
    > >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<<

    > -=Every Newsgroup - Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-
    >


     
  15. Larry

    Larry Guest

    Now should I stick my genny on the front as there is room what will the law
    think, and have they really anything they can say here or to eternity ?

    --
    þT

    L'autisme c'est moi

    "Space folds, and folded space bends, and bent folded space contracts and
    expands unevenly in every way unconcievable except to someone who does not
    believe in the laws of mathematics"

    "Eddie Green" <ed.green@btinternet.com> wrote in message
    news:d3ako8$hda$1@titan.btinternet.com...
    > Can someone tell me the present law regarding Bull Bars, A Frames, etc.

    Are
    > they permitted on new vehicles? to be fitted to existing vehicles ? and

    what
    > about in France, is there any legislation there.
    > Thanks.
    > Eddie Green.
    >
    >



     
  16. Larry

    Larry Guest

    I am not pro bull bars but with a vintage landie I can't see em making a
    haporth of difference on pedestrian impact and might even improve the
    situation.

    Like I said in my previos post I doubt if anyone would quibble if I fixed my
    generator there or a winch, a landie is not a car it is a utility vehicle.


    --
    Larry
    Series 3 rust and holes

    "Nige" <nigel.inceFANNYFART@btinternet.com> wrote in message
    news:3bt1q4F6m283sU1@individual.net...
    >
    > Why do you want bullbars anyhow mate?
    >
    > I really cant see what purpose they serve for normal road driving. They

    can make any accident damage a
    > fair bit worse & are not exactly good if you hit a pedestrian. I can see

    why they could be useful for off
    > road driving.
    >
    > Anyone got any commenst about bullbars & have i missed the point etc?
    >
    > Nige
    >
    > --
    > Subaru WRX (The Bitch)
    >
    > Series 3 Landrover 88" (Albert)
    >
    > '"They called him Jimmy the gent"
    >
    >



     
  17. Larry

    Larry Guest

    Roofrack ???? roofrack

    now how might that be a hazard other than at drive in McDonalds and Car
    Washes?

    I have wing mirrors on my landie, and they are potentially nasty, as much as
    door mirrors might be.

    Incedentally the only way a landie can be a classic is if it is heavily
    modified in my opinion, they were never intended to be pickled in aspic.

    --
    Larry
    Series 3 rust and holes


    "Pantelis Giamarellos" <pantg@otenet.gr> wrote in message
    news:3bujpaF6eepb2U1@individual.net...
    > Nige Hi,
    >
    > I totally agree with your on bullbars being both un-necessary and

    dangerous
    > on vehicles that are used mainly on the road or for slight or medium off
    > roading use.
    > This is why I have removed it (along with the roofrack) from one of my two
    > camels. The other one is being kept at 100% original state (down to its
    > event battle scars) as a future classic vehicle.
    >
    > To get back to your point about bullbars I can also add that a chassis
    > mounted bullbar will definately cause more damage to the vehicle it is
    > mounted on in case on an accident since the chassis can get more easily

    bent
    > and also bullbars tend to spread damage in a larger bodyshell area while
    > vehicles without bullbars tend to have accident damage focused only in the
    > "contact" area.
    >
    > They also signicicantly alter the way the vehicle handles because they add
    > so much weight in front of the front axle.
    >
    > Take care
    > Pantelis
    >



     
  18. Larry

    Larry Guest

    My landie sees roos, I have one as a mascot on the dashboard :)


    --
    Larry
    Series 3 rust and holes

    "Pantelis Giamarellos" <pantg@otenet.gr> wrote in message
    news:3c005aF6laj4hU1@individual.net...
    > JD Hi,
    >
    > it is extremely nice to be able to drive in the open space and I am sure
    > your bullbar really deserves its place in front of your car.
    > But then again would it really be a wise choice to have it on a car that
    > only sees open space and 'roos in its dreams?
    >
    > Take care
    > Pantelis
    >
    > "JD" <jjd@SPAMLESS.com.au> wrote in message



     
  19. GbH

    GbH Guest

    In news:d3hbl6$ljr$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk,
    Larry <NDA@larry-arnold.com> blithered:
    > Now should I stick my genny on the front as there is room what will
    > the law think, and have they really anything they can say here or to
    > eternity ?
    >
    >
    > "Eddie Green" <ed.green@btinternet.com> wrote in message
    > news:d3ako8$hda$1@titan.btinternet.com...
    >> Can someone tell me the present law regarding Bull Bars, A Frames,
    >> etc. Are they permitted on new vehicles? to be fitted to existing
    >> vehicles ? and what about in France, is there any legislation there.
    >> Thanks.
    >> Eddie Green.


    Seem to recall you can put what you like on your vehicle with the provisos, it
    must be adequately secured and not extend outside the footprint. ie the regular
    plan view. Bull bars thus require approval, but winches (or generators) mounted as
    part of or behind the front bumper do not.
    ICBW!

    --
    "He who says it cannot be done should not interrupt him doing it."

    If at first you don't succeed,
    maybe skydiving's not for you!


     
  20. Dave 2000

    Dave 2000 New Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Posts:
    640
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Spain
    The directive is not a 'blanket' covering all vehicle legilation for example, here in Spain my 200tdi discovery will fail the ITV (MOT) if I REMOVE the tow bar, this applies to any factory fitted option. I am in the process of having my vehicle modification approved by an engineer (600.00 euros), this will include such items as shock absorbers/bumpers/winch ect, then all mods are listed and added to a document called 'permision de circulacion'.

    This document has to be carried in all Spanish cars 24/7, it enables the ITV staff and Police to check the vehicle conforms to certain standards whilst on the road. If I simply change a wheel or tyre size and do not gain approval I could face a fine. This applies even if it was a factory option.

    You could go buy and fit the optional bigger tyres for example and then you have to have them approved and the details registered.

    Hope that throws a cat in

    regards

    Dave