Freelander 1 Brake Pipe Flares - Share of Knowledge

Promised to get back to you all about the types of flares and fittings on the F 1 when I had time.

When I started replacing brake pipes on my project car I was surprised by the lack of clear details on what type of flare and what type of fitting to use. This seems to extend to auto parts suppliers and it appears anyone will sell you whatever they have on the shelf. I worked in a very regulated safety critical industry and it struck me that there should be some standards that apply. The brake system, after all, is relied upon each and every time you put your foot on the brake pedal. It is this system that prevents your internal organs getting scared of the dark and attempting to exit your body !

Trying to focus on what is directly relevant to the Freelander 1 - I identified the following information:

There are two standards SAE and DIN. Usually SAE applies to older cars and DIN to newer cars. Usually SAE uses UNF threaded fittings and DIN uses metric fittings.

You guessed it, the Freelander 1 uses metric fittings but with both SAE and DIN flares!

Some pictures will help here:
This is a 'bubble flare' which most medium priced brake flaring tools seem to produce.

This type of flare is not used as original on a Freelander 1. However, panic not if you have used it, it appears that as long as the flare is made in copper it will 'make itself' compatible with the fittings on the Freelander 1. This type of flare is often referred to as an SAE single flare or a bubble flare.

The Freelander uses two types of flare, the SAE double flare (which is made as above and then a 90 degree cone is inserted in the open end to make a recessed seat and a DIN flare, often called a DIN single flare although as far as I can see there is no DIN double flare !

The DIN flare used on the Freelander 1 - note that the bottom edge is flat (compare to bubble flare above). This type of flare is used with a flat ended brake pipe nut.

DIN flare showing a flat ended brake pipe nut - no recess in the nut as the flare is flat on the bottom edge.

SAE double flare showing a recessed (90 degree cone shape) nut as the flare is conical on the bottom edge. Photos below at an angle help see this better.

Hopefully the difference between the two types of Freelander 1 brake flares and fittings is now visible. DIN on left and SAE double on the right.

As the recess in the double flare brake pipe nut is 90 degrees, this could be added to a standard flat nut by use of a 90 degree countersink used carefully.

Again, the experience of this site suggests that using flat nuts with SAE double flares works o.k, I think this is because most people use copper pipes which form themselves. If steel was used it may be a different story !

Hopefully the above is clear, if I have confused anyone please ask for clarification and, as I say, this is the result of my research. If anyone has different information it would be good to add it to complete the picture as accurately as possible.

Fittings on the F 1 are 10mm and 12mm (used on some ports on the ABS) threads.

Please bear in mind that I have been working on 2001 - 2003 cars - things may have changed on later vehicles.
My head hurts....................... but thought it worth documenting.

I am going to invest in a better quality set of SAE and separate DIN flare tools. One tool that does both is not possible unless the fixed die can be changed as one has a flat end and the other bubbled. I managed to make DIN flares by reversing the back plate on my tool which has one side recessed and the other flat.

Sommat like this - also shows the profiles well and has a marker for inserting the pipe the correct distance.

Thanks for letting us know it really helps.

andyfreelandy said:

As the recess in the double flare brake pipe nut is 90 degrees, this could be added to a standard flat nut by use of a 90 degree countersink...

Click to expand...

... which you carefully apply to the union nut, before realising you’ve flared the brake pipe before fitting the union nut.



Very useful post, Andy - thanks!

Thanks for spending the time to share the information Andy. It looks like I've been making the fittings correctly.

Great thread Andy - my brake flare tool seems only capable of making flares like that shown in your first picture. But I do use copper, and not had problems (not on FL1, but on MGF - so likely the same) - probably because of the explanation you gave: copper is soft and will be formed like Plasticine into what ever shape it is pushed up against.

rob_bell said:

But I do use copper, and not had problems (not on FL1, but on MGF - so likely the same) - probably because of the explanation you gave: copper is soft and will be formed like Plasticine into what ever shape it is pushed up against.

Click to expand...

Because copper is malleable, it simply deforms to the shape of the fittings.

andyfreelandy said:

Sommat like this - also shows the profiles well and has a marker for inserting the pipe the correct distance.

Click to expand...

Bought one of these. It is fab!!! No marks on pipe where it is held. Accurate precision full size flare every time. Looks like it will last forever and threads are on hardened inserts so are replaceable. Very good tool indeed. Germans have cracked it with this and it does SAE and DIN.

andyfreelandy said:

Bought one of these. It is fab!!! No marks on pipe where it is held. Accurate precision full size flare every time. Looks like it will last forever and threads are on hardened inserts so are replaceable. Very good tool indeed. Germans have cracked it with this and it does SAE and DIN.

Click to expand...

I used to have one in the garage. However when I left, I noticed it was missing, so bought myself a cheaper Sealey forming tool, which isn't so flexible.

Where'd you get it Andy?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/372673991438
I liked the german one due to the hardened inserts and the fact it does both types. DIN and SAE.

Oh and it does steel a treat. Or should I say stahl !!! Vunderbah.

Thanks for posting that Andy - it isn't prohibitively expensive, and it looks as though it'll do a better job than the kit I have at the moment (probably like Nodge's a cheap Sealey or Clarke widget - I can't remember now!)

The difference is unbelievable. Poxy small slightly off centre flares are now the size of the factory originals. Steel pipes the same and, more importantly the process is repeatable! The uk version at £30 each don't appear to have the hardened thread inserts. The only additional cost was the postage. I just sold my old Sealey clamp type tool on ebay for a £10 to offset cost and cos I would never use it in preference to this one. Will post photos then stop raving about it!

Photos:
From the left, best effort with the Sealey, copper with new tool ,steel with new tool.

And end on shows the improvement.

and lastly the steel, didn't bother with all the paint removal on the steel as it was a test piece.

Key thing to remember is to use the countersunk nuts for the SAE double flares to allow the taper to fit into the nut and flat nuts for the DIN single flare. Nut on left is the countersunk one.

I really must stop buying solar hobby stuff and buy a better flaring tool to replace the crappy Sealey one I now have. I need a tool that can do steel as well as copper, so I can do partial piping runs.

Only just caught up with this thread, great post Andy thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge .

Just re-reading this thread. As predicted: MGF is the same with a mix of SAE and DIN. Good old Rover eh?

Already have the SAE version of that flaring tool and have just ordered the DIN version. Shouldn’t slow me down too much as I have metric SAE fittings to replace DIN ones where necessary

SAE double flare (note counter sunk fitting for flare to sit in):



DIN “bubble” with flat, not counter sunk fitting:

Top of the class. Was worth writing up after all !

It was indeed!