Bosch Injector

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Chesc

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So before anyone tells me to upgrade to a 200tdi or a 300tdi let me say that I don't want to! It's not a case of trying to save money, Its a case of wanting a 2.5NA engine!

I would however like to put a Bosch VE injector pump on my 2.5 NA engine.

On reading this thread : 200tdi injector refurb. It seems that the 200tdi with a bosch VE injector pump has an injector pressure of about 2900 psi

When comparing it to the standard injector pressure of a 2.5 NA with a Lucas CAV injector pump fond in this thread Injector Pressure for 2.5NA Diesel?. It shows a recommended injector pressure of 2000 psi.

Does anyone know how far you can down tune a Bosch VE (Although I'm pretty confident that you wouldn't :p) Can you get a 900psi reduction? If you can't downturn it that far using the existing tuning methods. Do you reckon I go down an electronic restriction route or mechanical? Going to have to buy a Bosch VE unit to explore fitting problems...

Anyway, Thanks guys. I don't expect this to be easy but I don't like easy:monitor_punch:
 
Got to be worth a try without changing the pump mutch. I guess (and it's just a guess), the additional pressure will open the injector pintles a bit faster, and the spray pattern may change. You might just get away with a slight timing change. A bigger challenge might be to match up the timing belt teeth/pulley on the pump.
 
zeaphod said:
Got to be worth a try without changing the pump mutch. I guess (and it's just a guess), the additional pressure will open the injector pintles a bit faster, and the spray pattern may change. You might just get away with a slight timing change. A bigger challenge might be to match up the timing belt teeth/pulley on the pump.
Click to expand...

I'm hoping to get away with retro fritting the pulley gear from the original Lucas CAV pump to the Bosch VE and detuning the Bosch pump to reduce the pressure output to avoid significant spray pattern change... Let the experimentation begin!
 
Paul D said:
<Cough>

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f55/im-now-selling-my-19j-engine-277647.html

Won't be a lot of money, probably not much more than an injector pump .. if you can arrange collection, make an offer .. ;)

I believe they're identical, just that my engine has a turbo and gubbins to suit, yours doesn't!! It'll be on ebay this weekend if no-one makes a firm offer.
Click to expand...

Hey buddy, Thanks for the offer ;) Im replacing the Lucas CAV injector pump from my 2.5NA with a Bosch VE one so having an extra Lucas one won't help too much! (I've also got an extra 2 military recon 2.5NA engines sitting in their pallets so I don't have room for any more engines :) )
 
I wonder if the timing case of a 200tdi will fit the 2.5!
The injector pressure seems to be variable in the pump by adjusting stroke , but have not seen any instructions for doing this.
Wonder how many other vehicles use the Bosch VE pump.
 
Just having a thought about this. There may be a difference in the length of the fuel pulse. I believe this is governed by a cam in the CAV pump. There are loads of good articles about the CAV pump on t'internet - it was used in lots of things. Again, given the low stressed nature of both engines, it may not make a huge difference.
 
zeaphod said:
The ability to run on veggie oil?
Click to expand...

Exactly... An indirect injection engine with the right fuel pump. It really is the ideal combination... Provided I can get it to work ;). I mean Its a lot of effort for very little (If any) financial gain) but I didn't buy a Landy to save money and have an economical modern car!
 
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zeaphod said:
Just having a thought about this. There may be a difference in the length of the fuel pulse. I believe this is governed by a cam in the CAV pump. There are loads of good articles about the CAV pump on t'internet - it was used in lots of things. Again, given the low stressed nature of both engines, it may not make a huge difference.
Click to expand...

Hmm thanks.. something to mull over. Im in the process of rebuilding my 1986 county with the end game being the pump. Doing the research now before diving in :). I figure I can experiment with the original NA engine since I have 2 I can replace it with if anything goes drastically wrong :rolly:

Taking my door frame for galvanisation this weekend.. Fun times:clap2:
 
Chesc said:
Exactly... An indirect injection engine with the right fuel pump.
Click to expand...

Savings on fuel may be outweighed by the cost and time taken over the conversion.

Tbh I can see a few issues with doing this, I would read up the data about the two pumps very carefully before starting.

Do you know anyone else who has done it successfully? I am not saying they do not exist, just that I have never met one. :)
 
Turboman said:
Savings on fuel may be outweighed by the cost and time taken over the conversion.

Tbh I can see a few issues with doing this, I would read up the data about the two pumps very carefully before starting.

Do you know anyone else who has done it successfully? I am not saying they do not exist, just that I have never met one. :)
Click to expand...

You are totally right. With the current oil market there are little saving to be made. Sure you are protected for oil market volatility. I've just always wanted to adapt a car to run on veg oil. I was going to do it with an old merc but I can't run 3 cars.

A lot of people successfully convert 200tdis to veg oil. Although they are direct injection it can be done. From what I have read the ideal engine is an indirect injection one with a bosch pump. People seem to ask the question about 2.5NA engines and bosch pumps but the threads never get anywhere because they discover they can't just bolt the part on and get scared off.
 
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Chesc said:
You are totally right. With the current oil market there are little saving to be made. Sure you are protected for oil market volatility. I've just always wanted to adapt a car to run on veg oil. I was going to do it with an old merc but I can't run 3 cars.

A lot of people successfully convert 200tdis to veg oil. Although they are direct injection it can be done. From what I have read the ideal engine is an indirect injection one with a bosch pump. People seem to ask the question about 2.5NA engines and bosch pumps but the threads never get anywhere because they discover they can't just bolt the part on and get scared off.
Click to expand...

I know many run Tdi with veg oil, and I am sure plenty run 2.5na on veg oil too.
More the diffficuties of changing the pump I was thinking of. If you do it, post some pics, I would be interested in how you get on.
Why is an indirect injection engine better with veg oil?
 
Turboman said:
I know many run Tdi with veg oil, and I am sure plenty run 2.5na on veg oil too.
More the diffficuties of changing the pump I was thinking of. If you do it, post some pics, I would be interested in how you get on.
Why is an indirect injection engine better with veg oil?
Click to expand...

As I understand it direct injection requires injection at higher pressures. Also as an engine, direct injection is more refined towards (petrol chemical) diesel fuel, its viscosity, general properties etc. I think that the logic goes as diesel engine get more refined to run more economically and generate more power using a single fuel type, they are less suitable for use with multiple fuel types. I believe that in an indirect injection engine, as the fuel is mixed in the swirl chamber, the spray pattern from the injection nozzle in not as critical as in direct injection. In a direct injection engine I think you need to be more careful to get you fuel to be similar in properties to (petrol chemical) diesel to get it to run properly i.e. heat veg oil before it gets to the injectors, 2 tank systems etc. (Im not saying it won't work)

Im also not saying you wouldn't need heat veg oil for an indirect injection engine but as I understand it the tolerates are greater. (but you really have to heat it to get it through a Lucas CAV pump)
 
Chesc said:
As I understand it direct injection requires injection at higher pressures. Also as an engine, direct injection is more refined towards (petrol chemical) diesel fuel, its viscosity, general properties etc. I think that the logic goes as diesel engine get more refined to run more economically and generate more power using a single fuel type, they are less suitable for use with multiple fuel types. I believe that in an indirect injection engine, as the fuel is mixed in the swirl chamber, the spray pattern from the injection nozzle in not as critical as in direct injection. In a direct injection engine I think you need to be more careful to get you fuel to be similar in properties to (petrol chemical) diesel to get it to run properly i.e. heat veg oil before it gets to the injectors, 2 tank systems etc. (Im not saying it won't work)

Im also not saying you wouldn't need heat veg oil for an indirect injection engine but as I understand it the tolerates are greater. (but you really have to heat it to get it through a Lucas CAV pump)
Click to expand...

Not had much to do with direct injection, but I have two indirect at this time, and have had dozens over the years, landies, tractors, boats.

Older marine and industrial engines could run a wide variety of fuels, including some which were solid, like coconut wax, that was why they had fuel heating. And fuel heating is needed in places like Sweden and Canada to stop fuel going solid.

But I had never heard that it was needed to run a percentage of veg oil in fuel in British conditions?

Have you searched the forum for other threads about veg oil? It has been discussed a lot but I haven't taken much interest, I just buy fuel myself, not against using veg. just don't have the time to bother with it.
 
Turboman said:
Not had much to do with direct injection, but I have two indirect at this time, and have had dozens over the years, landies, tractors, boats.

Older marine and industrial engines could run a wide variety of fuels, including some which were solid, like coconut wax, that was why they had fuel heating. And fuel heating is needed in places like Sweden and Canada to stop fuel going solid.

But I had never heard that it was needed to run a percentage of veg oil in fuel in British conditions?

Have you searched the forum for other threads about veg oil? It has been discussed a lot but I haven't taken much interest, I just buy fuel myself, not against using veg. just don't have the time to bother with it.
Click to expand...

I've had a look around :) There has been success in running direct injection landys on veg oil (200tdi) the 2.5 NA work well initially but mess up because the fuel pump goes.

You don't need to run veg oil in the diesel fuel, they are designed to run on pure diesel. It does however help to run diesel in veg oil ;) read and interesting paper from an indian university that was getting good results running a veg oil/ethanol mix with no diesel.
 
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