auto gearbox issue?, car revs up to 3500 from 1 to 2

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berg450

berg450

Well-Known Member
Posts
665
Location
Hungary
Hi All,

In the past few days I have experienced a strange thing with my auto gearbox when it changed from 1 to 2. First did it when the car was cold. It rev up to about 3500 before changed to 2. When the engine become warm then it changed fine. Yesterday I checked the oil level in the gearbox and top it up. After it seemed to be ok, but today I experienced this problem when the engine was already warm!! It happaned only once then it was fine.
What could it be? Should I change the oil complatelly or something else has to be checked?
 
dont just top it up... put new oil in it first of all ... or was it changed recently?... and if it was did you top it up with the same oil? , the autobox is sensitive to such things
 
Change the oil and filter using the correct re-fill proceedure. If it still flares on shifts, add a bottle of Lucas Transmission Fix, one snake oil that I know from experience works although it's not instant, needs a few hundred miles.
If it has a dipstick, refill is easy, if not you will need a pump, I use a garden sprayer with the lance removed. If no dipstick, make sure you loosen the filler plug before the drain plug, it's embarrasing draining the oil only to find the filler plug is stuck.
You will only get about 5 litres out as the rest is trapped in the torque convertor. I change the oil a second time after a few hundred miles to ensure the oil is as fresh as possible.
 
To be honest I do not know what oil was used before (according to the previus owner he changed it 4 years ago). When the engine was cold I drained some of the old oil and it was not so nice (dark). I used the specified ATF dexron IID oil to refill (followed the refill procedure: engine running, put it to gears and fill the oil until it runs out).
 
what type/grade of oil do you recommend? dexron IID or III, or something different?
I plan to buy: CASTROL TRANSMAX DEX II.MULTIVEHICLE

About filter, do I need original Land Rover or other type is also OK (huge price diff in Hungary)?
 
sierrafery said:
off course... but if you read the official D2 maintainance check sheet it's at every 24K;)
Click to expand...

Same for my vehicle and as it's only done 43,000 miles to date, guess how many times the fluid has been changed... ok twice :)

And the proper main dealers way, the filter changed then plugged in to to a machine and all the fluid changed at once which is via the oil-cooler connections I believe.. job done.
Laying underneath and removing sump and the exhaust to get access and all the other work required is not for me :D
 
sierrafery said:
dont just top it up... put new oil in it first of all ... or was it changed recently?... and if it was did you top it up with the same oil? , the autobox is sensitive to such things
Click to expand...

you mention that the autobox is sensitive for different oil. Ok, but if I change the oil by using simple method (no special equipment) 1-2 liters at least will remain in the gearbox from the old oil. As I do not know what kind of oil has used by the previus owner, the only way to make sure that one type of oil in the box only is to use special equipment, right?
 
it will stay more than 2 ltr in the torque converter, use the recommended dexron IID or III and change it again after a week then the new oil will 'overtake" the old one
 
Hello All,

Yesterday i have changed the oil (Castrol ATF Dex2, about 5,5liters) with filter and tried the car 2 times already. No change yet:confused:
When the engine is cold it still revs up to 3600-4000 before it changes to 2. After the first change it goes well.
Any idea what else should I check, or just wait and change the oil again in a few hundred kms?
Thanks
 
run a stall test on it:
Stall test

Testing
1. Chock the wheels and fully apply the
handbrake.
2. Start the engine and run it until it reaches
normal operating temperature.
3. Apply the footbrake and select 'D'.
4. Fully depress the accelerator pedal and note
the tachometer reading. The figures should be
as given below. Do not carry out stall test for
longer than 10 seconds, and DO NOT repeat
until 30 minutes have elapsed.
l V8: 2200 to 2400 rev/min
l Diesel: 2600 to 2800 rev/min
5. A reading below 1300 rev/min indicates a
torque converter fault, ie stator free-wheel.
6. A reading between 1300 and 2200 rev/min (V8)
or between 1300 and 2600 rev/min (Diesel)
indicates reduced engine power.
7. A reading above 2400 rev/min (V8) or above
2800 rev/min (Diesel) indicates clutch slip.

NOTE: The figures quoted above were
measured at sea level with an ambient
temperature of 20 °C (68 °F). At higher altitudes
or higher ambient temperatures, these figures
will be reduced.
Click to expand...
 
tried today. It rev up quickly to about 2500 but after the car started to move up the wheel choks so I stopped.
But surely it could reach the 2600 and as it has so much power I do not think that it is slipping.
Do you think that I should try again whith better (bigger) wheel chocks or check something else?
 
berg450 said:
tried today. It rev up quickly to about 2500 but after the car started to move up the wheel choks so I stopped.
But surely it could reach the 2600 and as it has so much power I do not think that it is slipping.
Do you think that I should try again whith better (bigger) wheel chocks or check something else?
Click to expand...
It's not a stall problem. Stick some Lucas Transmission fix in and see if it helps.
 
Unfortunatelly there is no Lucas trans fix available in hungary.
But seems that after the oil change my problem is getting worse. After a few hundred kms I have experienced the problem more frequently. The land rover specialist wants to take it box apart and change valves..., an auto transmission specialist said that it could be an electric issue.

I have found an article (paddockspares) which advices that better not to change the oil as the problem can be even worse. See the explanation:

The governor valve is sticking, which can be caused by contamination. i.e. clutch plates or other parts disintegrating. The fine debris finds its way past the filter and tends to accumulate in the governor, causing it to stick. A temporary solution is to remove and clean the governor. The problem will often recur as debris from damaged parts continues to build up in the governor. If the problem continues after cleaning the governor then it may be necessary it replace your Autobox.
We have noticed many customers reporting this fault starting a few days after an oil and filter change and after researching this using our experience and the expertise of others in the trade we have come to the conclusion that as ATF oil is a detergent type oil, when the oil is changed this will dislodge and stir up settled debris in the autobox which in turn jams the governor valve. In light of this although it sounds controversial it is debateable if changing the oil and filter is a good idea, some say if the box it going to fail it will fail if the oil is good or bad and their advice is leave it alone. I am still undecided but the truth is I get a lot of calls from customers thinking they are looking after the autobox by servicing it and a few days later this fault occurs.
 
It's a difficult call, my personal opinion is the box won't work without the oil in, the oil is the blood in the box, it's a serviceable item on the D2 so flush it through and change it. The box will always fail at some point, but will depend on the usage and what life it's had.

Could the same be said about engine oil, Is it debatable changing the oil and filters could cause more harm than good? After all, if the engines going to fail, it's going to fail.

I know I will continue to annually change engine oil and service the gearbox ;)
 
an electrical issue or a sticking valve would trigger a fault code/flashing M&S in 99% of cases IMO...that theory with "governor valve" is above my understanding as i dont know what is that in the D2's ZF autobox.

that stall test recommends to fully apply the footbrake too so i can't see why the car started to move...and if you didnt fully depress the throttle as it moved but it was at 2500 on it's way up it might have reached 2800 or more... read again that procedure and do it again.... and when they say Fully depress the accelerator it means kick down and wait max 10 seconds not like when you want to move away otherwise it's irrelevant
 
berg450 said:
Unfortunatelly there is no Lucas trans fix available in hungary.
But seems that after the oil change my problem is getting worse. After a few hundred kms I have experienced the problem more frequently. The land rover specialist wants to take it box apart and change valves..., an auto transmission specialist said that it could be an electric issue.

I have found an article (paddockspares) which advices that better not to change the oil as the problem can be even worse. See the explanation:

The governor valve is sticking, which can be caused by contamination. i.e. clutch plates or other parts disintegrating. The fine debris finds its way past the filter and tends to accumulate in the governor, causing it to stick. A temporary solution is to remove and clean the governor. The problem will often recur as debris from damaged parts continues to build up in the governor. If the problem continues after cleaning the governor then it may be necessary it replace your Autobox.
We have noticed many customers reporting this fault starting a few days after an oil and filter change and after researching this using our experience and the expertise of others in the trade we have come to the conclusion that as ATF oil is a detergent type oil, when the oil is changed this will dislodge and stir up settled debris in the autobox which in turn jams the governor valve. In light of this although it sounds controversial it is debateable if changing the oil and filter is a good idea, some say if the box it going to fail it will fail if the oil is good or bad and their advice is leave it alone. I am still undecided but the truth is I get a lot of calls from customers thinking they are looking after the autobox by servicing it and a few days later this fault occurs.
Click to expand...

thats manually governed boxes not the ecu d2 ones ,oil if blackish is indicator of poor clutch packs an easy check , and its not debateable on whether to change oil or not, it should be changed ,govenor was easy fix anyhow
 
sierrafery said:
an electrical issue or a sticking valve would trigger a fault code/flashing M&S in 99% of cases IMO...that theory with "governor valve" is above my understanding as i dont know what is that in the D2's ZF autobox.

that stall test recommends to fully apply the footbrake too so i can't see why the car started to move...and if you didnt fully depress the throttle as it moved but it was at 2500 on it's way up it might have reached 2800 or more... read again that procedure and do it again.... and when they say Fully depress the accelerator it means kick down and wait max 10 seconds not like when you want to move away otherwise it's irrelevant
Click to expand...
Thanks, you are right, I did it wrong... The footbrake was not applied :(
Now it has done on the correct way. Rpm went up and stayed on 2750. So it is ok, right?
 
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