Articulation

I suppose I'm barking up the wrong tree here but everyone seems to think that articulation is a good thing but correct me but all I see is one wheel hitting the wheel arch and not able to move

The disco in the picture won't move because the wheel is in the arch stopping it move

What picture?

Can't upload pic but get the idea

Try Google. Get yourself a basic understanding of how suspension works and why you want certain attributes. It'll help you out loads. Even in threads like this. As you'll then be able to understand any answers offered too you.

As pointers on where to start.

1. Suspension moves both up and down. Articulation will makes use of both.

2. Look up what a bump stop is.

Articulation helps keep both rear wheels on the ground, which helps overcome the limitations of only having a centre diff-lock. It's also cheaper to get, usually, than an axle difflock.

Evan farmer said:

Can't upload pic but get the idea

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Btw. Unless the picture you are referring too is of a badly modified vehicle. Then no. I don't get the idea as the wheel most certainly should not be jammed.

So bump stops are what makes my theory wrom

300bhp/ton said:

Btw. Unless the picture you are referring too is if a badly modified vehicle. Then no. I don't get the idea as the wheel most certainly should not be jammed.

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ng as they stop upward travel?

Evan farmer said:

So bump stops are what makes my theory wrom
ng as they stop upward travel?

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So bump stops make my theory wrong as they stop upward travel?

Bump stops can help when they stop one side lifting too far into the wheel well on one side because they add a small amount of leverage to the unweighted side that's dropping down. With longer articulation and downward travel, extended bump stops provide more pressure to help get the opposite wheel on the ground, especially if the springs also dislocate.

See the pics from when I was building the rear end of my '90. The drivers side is dislocating the spring, whilst the nearside is hardly stuffing into the wheel well, without the longer shocks, extended bump stops and 'better' trailing arms the drivers side wheel would be in mid air now. However, in this instance the nearside is NOT hitting the stops yet, there's a way to go for that to happen, but the wheel on the drivers side can still transmit some torque to the ground. The nearside wheel (both actually!) does stuff a lot further into the wheelwell than it shows here, it depends a lot on the land beneath ..

Paul D said:

Bump stops can help when they stop one side lifting too far into the wheel well on one side because they add a small amount of leverage to the unweighted side that's dropping down. With longer articulation and downward travel, extended bump stops provide more pressure to help get the opposite wheel on the ground, especially if the springs also dislocate.

See the pics from when I was building the rear end of my '90. The drivers side is dislocating the spring, whilst the nearside is hardly stuffing into the wheel well, without the longer shocks, extended bump stops and 'better' trailing arms the drivers side wheel would be in mid air now. However, in this instance the nearside is NOT hitting the stops yet, there's a way to go for that to happen, but the wheel on the drivers side can still transmit some torque to the ground. The nearside wheel (both actually!) does stuff a lot further into the wheelwell than it shows here, it depends a lot on the land beneath ..


View attachment 127092 View attachment 127093

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Nice landy so my theory is highly unlikely to happen

Sort of. It can and does happen when people, for instance, just sling larger springs on or plates to 'lift' their vehicle without any thought for the rest of the system, or just as often, fit very large tyres without any changes to accompany the tyres. My tyres look large but are only 235 x 85 16's .. I do want larger though ...

As it happens, the setup in those pictures has changed. The springs were located on the axle, as most are, and the relocation cones at the chassis end. Since then I've swapped that round, so the springs are stuck to the chassis, which keeps them in the same plane when the axle moves and makes them easier to relocate, but also easier to dislocate. This effectively gives even more travel as the springs could bind on the dislocation cones and stop movement slightly. This doesn't happen now. It's a bitch for jacking up though unless you use limit straps! Mind, at the limit the prop can also give issues with binding on the UJ's. Right now at the limit the prop doesn't bind, but it does touch, so the potential is still there ... so it's a work in progress. Most folk fit wide angle props, but I'll make do with some judicious grinding when ICBA ..

The front is much less of an issue as mostly it just doesn't have to work as hard as the rear. I'd like longer shocks and the bits/mods to make them work, but can't afford them.

The best upgrade I made to forward progress is adding the axle Difflock.

The following pic is my old, basically standard Disco ... The opposite rear wheel is well stuffed up into the wheel well and still touching the ground, but the drivers side, as can be seen, is at full articulation but is not touching anything enough and is free to rotate (See the mud in the tread which wouldn't spin out). Unfortunately, so is the diagonally opposite front ... hence me being beached! Slightly longer articulation might have kept me moving, but a difflock definitely would have! As it happens, I went through the exact same line a few moments later with just a tiny bit more momentum and easily made it.

Paul D said:

Sort of. It can and does happen when people, for instance, just sling larger springs on or plates to 'lift' their vehicle without any thought for the rest of the system, or just as often, fit very large tyres without any changes to accompany the tyres. My tyres look large but are only 235 x 85 16's .. I do want larger though ...

As it happens, the setup in those pictures has changed. The springs were located on the axle, as most are, and the relocation cones at the chassis end. Since then I've swapped that round, so the springs are stuck to the chassis, which keeps them in the same plane when the axle moves and makes them easier to relocate, but also easier to dislocate. This effectively gives even more travel as the springs could bind on the dislocation cones and stop movement slightly. This doesn't happen now. It's a bitch for jacking up though unless you use limit straps! Mind, at the limit the prop can also give issues with binding on the UJ's. Right now at the limit the prop doesn't bind, but it does touch, so the potential is still there ... so it's a work in progress. Most folk fit wide angle props, but I'll make do with some judicious grinding when ICBA ..

The front is much less of an issue as mostly it just doesn't have to work as hard as the rear. I'd like longer shocks and the bits/mods to make them work, but can't afford them.

The best upgrade I made to forward progress is adding the axle Difflock.

The following pic is my old, basically standard Disco ... The opposite rear wheel is well stuffed up into the wheel well and still touching the ground, but the drivers side, as can be seen, is at full articulation but is not touching anything enough and is free to rotate (See the mud in the tread which wouldn't spin out). Unfortunately, so is the diagonally opposite front ... hence me being beached! Slightly longer articulation might have kept me moving, but a difflock definitely would have! As it happens, I went through the exact same line a few moments later with just a tiny bit more momentum and easily made it.

View attachment 127099

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I'm looking on spring turrets on eBay and can't understand the difference between standard height and +2

Unless you have much longer shocks then you probably don't need +2 turrets. My 90 has +2" springs and shocks on the front on bog standard turrets with no issues, though I have fitted 1" larger bump stops. A just in case measure, they very rarely get touched and only when I've been st00pid.

It is something I'm gonna change eventually but don't feel the need to right now .. IOW I can't afford to ..

Evan farmer said:

I'm looking on spring turrets on eBay and can't understand the difference between standard height and +2

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You see, this is the thing. It really helps if you do the leg work and gain at least a basic understanding on how and why these things work.

There really is no 'right' way to modify the suspension. But there are a lot of bad ways. All will have negatives in one area or another, which you need to balance with the positives.

Ultimately you need to know and understand what you are trying to achieve and then pick the components to attain this. Just randomly buying crap and bolting it on is a receipie for suspension disaster and a vehicle that will likely end up less capable off road and far worse on road. Want proof, just look at many of the monstrosatities that litter the Prick & Prat sites. Obviously some are well modded, but you wouldn't believe the number that aren't.

What I'm trying to get at is. YOU should be the one to decide if something such as +2 turrets/shocks/springs, etc are the thing to get or not. Obviously asking for advice and opinions is fine too, but you are currently at the stage where you have no opinion and want someone to tell you what it should be if you know what I mean

And the thing is, suspension on the whole it a BIG BIG BIG topic... and it'd take pages to write down all the things you may want to know. Which is why I'm trying to encourage you to do some research, rather than ask basic questions on here.

Things you might want to consider however:

-what type of terrain. Is it deep mud running, US style rock crawling, UK muddy woods, extreme, green laning, competition, side slopes, etc etc

-How much off road vs on road use? As making it better for one, will normally have a negative effect on the other.

-Blanaced systems often perform better in the real world.

-Consider the bigger picture, would traction aids offer something more than lots of suspension mods?

-Is it for real world use or twist off challenges. The most extreme suspension with high RTI score (worth Googling RTI if you don't know what it means) often don't work any better or sometimes worse in real world situations.

-Don't just do the same thing everyone else is doing, unless you know it's actually a good thing to do or aligns with what you are wanting to achieve.

-Remeber suspension goes up and down. Something often forgotten on many modified vehicles.

@Evan farmer One more thing, I'm not saying don't post on here or don't post Q's. As you should continue to do both.