Freelander 1 Anyone investigated 'clicking' starter solenoid - design problem??

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andyfreelandy

andyfreelandy

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Many many threads where turning the key to 'start' position results in repeated clicking. I have read most of them and changing battery, new solenoid contacts, new starter or high resistance connection seem to be the solutions.

BUT - when mine did the same, I checked the battery (also took it to a battery supplier) and it was fine. I checked all connections and the only cure was to jump start it from another vehicle or charge the battery.

Aha - must be the battery you think. Clearly there is not enough power in the battery to engage the solenoid, hence it pulls in and the load taken by the starter causes it to drop out again then repeats this. Hence the clicking.
When mine failed in this way I measured the battery voltage, it never went below 10.5 Volts, should be fine to turn the engine over. If it was solenoid contacts then the solenoid would engage and the starter would struggle to turn. Is it that the Freelander has a starter solenoid that requires too higher voltage to engage? Mine fails when full load is needed or battery has relaxed ! (cold weather - been standing etc).

Has anyone checked what voltage the solenoid needs as a minimum to stay reliably engaged? This would need to be done with the starter wire removed and a volt meter applied (maybe with a large variable resistance in circuit). It may be that we are all buying new batteries when the problem is design??

Any thoughts, any results ?? Happy to link up a test circuit and report back. It may be that we can modify the solenoid to work (and hold in) at say 10 V rather than clicking at 10.5 V and this would increase reliability in the winter. I want to try to sort this, it just seems odd that so many are finding this problem and it may be that there is no 'fault' at all - it maybe the electrical boys screwed up in their calculations !!!!
Remember that a low battery, high resistance contact and incorrectly designed solenoid can all present themselves in the same way.

Discuss please......................................?????
 
It's not really all about volts. Amps is what gives you the umph to turn the starter. A battery can happily show 12.7 volts, yet be cream crackerd.
If one of the cells (they usually have 3 or 4 of them) has died, the battery will charge as normal, show 12.5v or higher and sometimes work. But your amperage that is usually 75ish will actually be about 40ish. Hence the clicking sound you get from a flat battery.
A simple battery test will show the unit as fine. To show a dead cell up needs a full charge discharge test with the proper equipment and takes 1-2 days.
Mike
 
I suppose what I am trying to say is that the hold in voltage for the solanoid should be lower than that required by the starter to turn the engine otherwise the starter will not get the feed at all ! An engine turning over happily at say 11 V on cranking current may drop the solenoid when it would otherwise start. I'm going to do some tests!
 
Skinny Mike said:
It's not really all about volts. Amps is what gives you the umph to turn the starter. A battery can happily show 12.7 volts, yet be cream crackerd.
If one of the cells (they usually have 3 or 4 of them) has died, the battery will charge as normal, show 12.5v or higher and sometimes work. But your amperage that is usually 75ish will actually be about 40ish. Hence the clicking sound you get from a flat battery.
A simple battery test will show the unit as fine. To show a dead cell up needs a full charge discharge test with the proper equipment and takes 1-2 days.
Mike
Click to expand...

No a 12 volt battery has six cells each of 2.2 volts. Fully charged 12.6 volts. True if a cell is faulty power will not flow through the battery at high demand. A shunt test would highlight this. It takes about 10 seconds. You need something like this. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clarke-Ca...421826?hash=item4b04767f02:g:tBAAAOSwv0tVCrmj
 
Last edited:
The battery on Load at startup can drop quite easily to 9 / 10 volts and is not an issue ! - it is - as mike says - a simply load current and also related to CCA of the battery.
Your issue sounds like an earthing issue or cable / terminals to battery issue - easy to test - use the probe lamp (NOT !!!! a bloody multi-meter !!! waste of time for this!)
Check issues between battery terminals and battery posts (the jump start WORKING would indicate an issue in the terminals to battery contact ! - ) -that is presuming the pos was to batt pos and neg was to batt neg ! - many times (as should be done on jump start) the pos goes to pos and the neg goes to chassis ground - not battery neg - again, if this is ok and the battery is good, problem is easy to fix!
Also check ground issues.
I cannot see this being difficult to sort.

10.5 on LOAD is absolutely FINE . - quite often less. !
It needs to be a measurement after all connection issues are ruled out. however, still - 10.5 on LOAD is PERFECTLY normal !.
Such a load of absolute tosh talked about batteries. - :rolleyes:
 
andyfreelandy said:
Many many threads where turning the key to 'start' position results in repeated clicking. I have read most of them and changing battery, new solenoid contacts, new starter or high resistance connection seem to be the solutions.

BUT - when mine did the same, I checked the battery (also took it to a battery supplier) and it was fine. I checked all connections and the only cure was to jump start it from another vehicle or charge the battery.

Aha - must be the battery you think. Clearly there is not enough power in the battery to engage the solenoid, hence it pulls in and the load taken by the starter causes it to drop out again then repeats this. Hence the clicking.
When mine failed in this way I measured the battery voltage, it never went below 10.5 Volts, should be fine to turn the engine over. If it was solenoid contacts then the solenoid would engage and the starter would struggle to turn. Is it that the Freelander has a starter solenoid that requires too higher voltage to engage? Mine fails when full load is needed or battery has relaxed ! (cold weather - been standing etc).

Has anyone checked what voltage the solenoid needs as a minimum to stay reliably engaged? This would need to be done with the starter wire removed and a volt meter applied (maybe with a large variable resistance in circuit). It may be that we are all buying new batteries when the problem is design??

Any thoughts, any results ?? Happy to link up a test circuit and report back. It may be that we can modify the solenoid to work (and hold in) at say 10 V rather than clicking at 10.5 V and this would increase reliability in the winter. I want to try to sort this, it just seems odd that so many are finding this problem and it may be that there is no 'fault' at all - it maybe the electrical boys screwed up in their calculations !!!!
Remember that a low battery, high resistance contact and incorrectly designed solenoid can all present themselves in the same way.

Discuss please......................................?????
Click to expand...
if its worse on a cold day it may have less than perfect power and earth leads/contact but its a sign you need a new battery
 
Agreed James, - it is also indicative of contact issues on terminals. in this case, it does not appear to be an age related issue though.
Many times a higher resistance issue on ANY terminal can be felt as heat generated after cranking -a quick and easy - AND reliable test.

Joe
 
Joe_H said:
Incorrect - sorry - 10.5 ON STARTING LOAD is perfectly OK - it needs to recover back to around 12.4 - 12.6 quickly - but other wise fine.
A battery OFF load is one thing - a battery ON LOAD is a different animal.
Click to expand...

I am not talking starting load i am talking charged battery. Which is what you must start with. I did say a shunt test would prove battery. Of course battery voltage will fall when under load that is the point of the shunt test.
 
I know nothing about testing batteries - what I do know is that there have been various threads go through about problems where the battery has been tested to be OK - but it was the battery causing the problems.
 
on the 1.8 petrol I found the wire that goes to the solenoid was the problem I took the old connector of and put a new one on problem solved .and fully charged battery would read about 13.9 volts if I suspect a battery I get out my battery tester but can not uses it on the gel batteries as you can not see if any bubbles are in the system to show which cell is going down.
 
GrumpyGel said:
I know nothing about testing batteries - what I do know is that there have been various threads go through about problems where the battery has been tested to be OK - but it was the battery causing the problems.
Click to expand...

guilty with relation to the battery problems as halfords said my battery was fine, but alas it wasn't

last winter got in the hippo turned the ign then click, jump started fine , had 12.6 volts when tested , but as soon as I turned the key the battery wasn't able to provide enough CCA

bought one of the larger varta battery, that just about fitted the carrier

since then , have been able to leave the car standing for 3-4 weeks and will start on the button

getting the bigger battery over the oem one was defentely a great investment

think quite a few of us have fitted the larger batteries

if memory serves me right is was a varta silver F18 110
 
Great debate - interesting and mostly good guidance, but do we agree that in principle the starter solenoid should remain firmly picked and held at a voltage not higher that that able to turn the engine over ??? Otherwise there is no way that the starter can turn - no connection via solenoid contacts............
 
O.K - some more results of investigation.
Car failed with click, most think (correctly) that jump starting solves the problem, which it does. But most also think (incorrectly) that the battery is naff. What I did was to run a lead from the starter solenoid directly to the same battery that failed to start the car. With the ignition on and the car in neutral, connected lead to same battery that had failed to operate the starter. It worked. About 10.5volts, plenty for cranking. SO - what is happening between the start position on the start switch and the feed to the starter solenoid.. Sommat is causing a volt drop and refuses to feed the output when the battery volts are low. Is it the immobiliser???? So - am thinking of a circuit review to see where the 'weak spot' lies. Changing the battery or jump starting will solve the problem but is not (always) necessary it seems !!!
 
andyfreelandy said:
O.K - some more results of investigation.
Car failed with click, most think (correctly) that jump starting solves the problem, which it does. But most also think (incorrectly) that the battery is naff. What I did was to run a lead from the starter solenoid directly to the same battery that failed to start the car. With the ignition on and the car in neutral, connected lead to same battery that had failed to operate the starter. It worked. About 10.5volts, plenty for cranking. SO - what is happening between the start position on the start switch and the feed to the starter solenoid.. Sommat is causing a volt drop and refuses to feed the output when the battery volts are low. Is it the immobiliser???? So - am thinking of a circuit review to see where the 'weak spot' lies. Changing the battery or jump starting will solve the problem but is not (always) necessary it seems !!!
Click to expand...
Hi Andy,
I am a tad baffled here -;)
Can you clarify - when you say 10.5V do you mean DURING cranking or off load.
Also, have you tried connecting a jump lead from the installed battery NEGATIVE to the engine block ? - this bypasses engine earthing issues.
Also try jump lead from installed battery negative to a good chassis ground point.
Joe
 
andyfreelandy said:
O.K - some more results of investigation.
Car failed with click, most think (correctly) that jump starting solves the problem, which it does. But most also think (incorrectly) that the battery is naff. What I did was to run a lead from the starter solenoid directly to the same battery that failed to start the car. With the ignition on and the car in neutral, connected lead to same battery that had failed to operate the starter. It worked. About 10.5volts, plenty for cranking. SO - what is happening between the start position on the start switch and the feed to the starter solenoid.. Sommat is causing a volt drop and refuses to feed the output when the battery volts are low. Is it the immobiliser???? So - am thinking of a circuit review to see where the 'weak spot' lies. Changing the battery or jump starting will solve the problem but is not (always) necessary it seems !!!
Click to expand...

Sounds like high resistance in the lead from battery to solenoid, a build up of corrosion in the lead can cause this and result in intermittent starting.

I assume you've ruled out earth issues by clipping a jump lead between battery -ve and engine block?
 
Wish it was as simple as 'lead from battery to solenoid' but the feed comes from the alarm immobiliser circuit with a signal being sent to the electronics when the key is turned to start. I don't think it is a 'fault' as such. Many on here have the problem and change the battery. I am trying to resolve it by experimenting with my own car and recording what happens at different battery voltages. As stated earlier, if the starter solenoid is not 'making contact' the car cannot start, so something is not operating at a voltage and current which is perfectly capable of turning the engine over but is stopping the feed to the solenoid. I am not going to let this slippery one drop until solved !!
 
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