Another TD5 with Starting Issues!

Hi All,

Not had to post on the forum too much as I never had any problems with my reliable 200TDi, I now have a TD5 and within a week I have some problems.

The TD5 will not start when is has been left for more than 4 or 5 hours, to be more precise it will start and then die after a couple of seconds, even if I rev the nuts off it during these few seconds it will still stop. Then it will crank with small amounts of white smoke but will not fire.

I have replaced pump in the tank as it was making some odd noises, the injector seals and cleaned the red plug on the ECU, which was covered in oil.

If it does start (easy start will do it, I know its not good for it) it runs very well, some times a bit guttless but this may be just me understanding the power range of the engine.

I am thinking that this is a fuel problem, or may be crank sensor?

Its a 2001 high mileage defender TD5.

if there was oil at the ECU, cleaning the plug will not cure it, you have to replace the injector loom asap, and just to rule it out, replace the air bleed valve in the filter's housing, see this http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f50/td5-air-bleed-valve-fuel-filter-140965.html

would be good to plug in a tester to read codes and live data though...if it's exclusively fueling related there will be no faults stored.

Will get a new loom ordered.

Once started and run, it will start just fine again and again, its only when it has been left for several hours, to me this sound like a fuel pressure problem.

I'll look at replacing the air bleed valve as per the thread you linked.

I should add that the fuel purge process doesn't seem to help at all, nor does leaving is on ignition 2 for 30 seconds.

cmartin said:

Will get a new loom ordered.

Once started and run, it will start just fine again and again, its only when it has been left for several hours, to me this sound like a fuel pressure problem.

I'll look at replacing the air bleed valve as per the thread you linked.

Click to expand...

then replace the FPR, albeit it used to leak when it's gone, but not necessarily...the certain method is to addapt a fitting to a gauge and screw it in instead of the temp sensor in the FPR, if you have constant 4 bar there there's no pressure problem...by the way do you still have the EGR on? ... worth a check this one too

I've just taken off the two rear unions on the fuel filter, there is no non return valve, or air bleed valve present. I assume that I should as a minimum have the air bleed valve!!

I have removed the EGR using a kit.

on D2 the air bleed valve is compulsory...the non-return is just one some newer modells

What I don't get about this problem is that it doesn't start after the fuel purging process. If air was getting into the system, or if there a pressure issue then I would have expect the purge to sort it.

As mentioned it will start on easy start, and once run up it will start just fine until it is left for more than 4 to 5 hours, typically over night, after which no amount of purging and cranking gets it going.

I read somewhere about the starter motor effecting the the injectors on startup, is this the case?

cmartin said:

I read somewhere about the starter motor effecting the the injectors on startup, is this the case?

Click to expand...

that's why a tester is recommended... the starter's electromagnetic field might affect the crank sensor sometimes...in this case you'll have a "noisy crank signal" fault code logged

sierrafery said:

that's why a tester is recommended... the starter's electromagnetic field might affect the crank sensor sometimes...in this case you'll have a "noisy crank signal" fault code logged

Click to expand...

Will get it read on Monday, and have ordered the Air bleed valve as its definitely not currently present.

Battery is dead now!!

Next Update!!

Battery died and would not charge, got a new one and I can now start the TD5 with no easy start, I don' think is due to solving the problem rather than it just give me a much stronger, longer crank. I put a new fuel filter on as well.

I may get a fuel pressure rebuild kit a long with the air bleed valve. As it starts on the button after only a few seconds of sustained running which makes me think that there is an air build up/pressure drop off problem.

Diagnostics will have to wait until Monday.

td5 ecu is very sensitive to low voltage, if battery has been weak then could explain the starting probs

sierrafery said:

that's why a tester is recommended... the starter's electromagnetic field might affect the crank sensor sometimes...in this case you'll have a "noisy crank signal" fault code logged

Click to expand...

They dont log a fault for this condition,best way to prove it is to bump start it if its a manual box car,on an auto disconnect the main starter lead and use a jump lead from battery pos to starter feed.

eightinavee said:

They dont log a fault for this condition,best way to prove it is to bump start it if its a manual box car,on an auto disconnect the main starter lead and use a jump lead from battery pos to starter feed.

Click to expand...

not long ago happened to me, i found a "noisy crank signal" code stored after i had some starting issues, presuming that the starter's electromagnetic field/induction is disturbing the sensor i imrovised a kind of "faraday's cage" around the sensor connected to earth and i have'nt had any problems since... that's a fact... but maybe it's just a coincidence, i can't tell more.

Thanks for all the comments guys, really helpful to tap in the landyzone knowledge base.

It still takes a minute or so of cracking to get it to started with the new battery, because the Air Bleed Valve is missing, I thought that the fuel may be draining back to tank after a couple of hours or overnight, so I put a clamp on the return pipe after the fuel cooler. I'll take the clamp off and try a bit later.

Once it has started, I can let it run for only a few seconds turn it off and it will start instantly this was the case with the old and the new battery, which I hope rules out low compression, starter noise or CPS.

I filled the tank to the absolute brim, and hey presto problem gone. Pump is now silent prior to cranking and it starts and runs first time. I can only assume that the missing Air Bleed Valve is the cause, and that fuel is draining back to tank over a period of time, but it can't do this if the return line in the tank is submerged in fuel. The new air bleed valve should arrive tomorrow so in about 3/4 of a tank time I will know for sure.

Thanks everyone for their help.

I had a problem starting my TD5 defender and had it relayed to a local main dealer (Stratstone) to my surprise they diagnosed the fault and fixed it within the hr, only charged £60 and valeted it for free!!! I then spen 30 mins drooling over all the latest models and had a coffee for free as well. Obviously a different fault but may be worth a visit.
Also it took me 12 - 18 months to learn how to drive my 2001 90 TD5 now it goes like a train. Best advice is to think ahead and get the throttle open before you hit a hill or an incline and it will accelerate up all but the worst in 4th and in most cases in 5th.