A/F and Imperial and spanners for ye olde Land Rovers

Dan_Trials · Jun 17, 2013

Very much looking at doing some Series and old tractor rebuilds/restorations and also up grading stuff in the garage too, so what spanners and sockets am I likely to need?

I've never really understood the difference between A/F and Imperial and Google searches always try to give me a history lesson! I do feel a bit ignorant on the subject and I am keen to learn but just can't find the right information.

So can anyone shed any light on the matter?

Also what size spanners and sockets should I get? (other than mole grips and a grinder

)

jamesmartin · Jun 17, 2013

imperial bolts ie 1/4 inch 5/16 etc use AF spanners ,3/8 bolt like prop bolt has 9/16 AF,bolts on later series are imperial except gear box which are whitworth spanners are sized as thread diameter

pressbrake · Jun 17, 2013

a/f means across flats, bs or whitworth the dimension given on the spanner is actual thread size not nut head size ie in modern terms a 13mm spanner in a/f designation is a 13mm spanner but under whitworth way of sizing it would be called a 8mm spanner as m8 has a 13mm head

Dan_Trials · Jun 17, 2013

Right I see, that clears things up, thanks guys! Also explains why a couple of the older guys think you need a 12mm spanner for an M12 etc.

So what would be classed as 'common' A/F sizes? (for example in metric you could say 10, 13, 17 and 19 would be most common)

thought it was mine! · Jun 18, 2013

Dan_Trials said:
Right I see, that clears things up, thanks guys! Also explains why a couple of the older guys think you need a 12mm spanner for an M12 etc.

So what would be classed as 'common' A/F sizes? (for example in metric you could say 10, 13, 17 and 19 would be most common)

don't go in the series section most of them still use a chisel and hammer on nuts/bolts

jamesmartin · Jun 18, 2013

Dan_Trials said:
Right I see, that clears things up, thanks guys! Also explains why a couple of the older guys think you need a 12mm spanner for an M12 etc.

So what would be classed as 'common' A/F sizes? (for example in metric you could say 10, 13, 17 and 19 would be most common)

5/16 for pump bleed screw then7/16 ,1/2 ,9/16,5/8,11/16,3/4,13/16 ,7/8 on a series

Dan_Trials · Jun 18, 2013

thought it was mine! said:
don't go in the series section most of them still use a chisel and hammer on nuts/bolts

:lol:

jamesmartin said:
5/16 for pump bleed screw then7/16 ,1/2 ,9/16,5/8,11/16,3/4,13/16 ,7/8 on a series

Thank you very much mate, that is perfect, you certainly know your stuff!

jamesmartin · Jun 18, 2013

some metric will do ie 8mm=5/16,11mm=7/16,13mm=1/2,14mm=9/16,16mm=5/8,17mm=11/16,19mm=3/4,21mm=13/16,22mm=7/8

Dan_Trials · Jun 18, 2013

Yeah I was aware of that but never really liked the idea, 14mm never fitted the prop bolts properly etc. I've got pretty much all my metric stuff up to scratch so some A/F and a few whitworth in their own tool box in the corner won't do any harm.

Bump · Jun 18, 2013

thought it was mine! said:
don't go in the series section most of them still use a chisel and hammer on nuts/bolts

OP, don't listen to this heathen... he doesn't know what he's on about

Most series owners have moved with the times and use grinders

Brown · Jun 18, 2013

Just to add to the confusion, round about WWII the sizes of Whit and BSF nuts were reduced to save materials. So if you find any really old spanners they might be a bit big. It was done sensibly however, so a 1/2" BSF pre war will fit a 1/2" Whit post war, and so on.

The UNF and UNC system used to be called the SAE (Society of American Engineers) and was popularised in this country in WWII. You can see the term SAE threads in older manuals. People also used to talk about 'Lend Lease' bolts and spanners for this system, after the American aid to Europe programme.

We had an Austin Seven once and as well as BSF and Whit threads, the electrical stuff had BA threads and anything to do with fluids was BSP. Plus one or two threads which were Austin's own invention, such as on the rear hubs.

ajb403 · Jun 18, 2013

jamesmartin said:
some metric will do ie 8mm=5/16,11mm=7/16,13mm=1/2,14mm=9/16,16mm=5/8,17mm=11/16,19mm=3/4,21mm=13/16,22mm=7/8

Assuming the heads haven't corroded too much!

flat cap andy · Jun 18, 2013

Brown said:
Just to add to the confusion, round about WWII the sizes of Whit and BSF nuts were reduced to save materials. So if you find any really old spanners they might be a bit big. It was done sensibly however, so a 1/2" BSF pre war will fit a 1/2" Whit post war, and so on.

The UNF and UNC system used to be called the SAE (Society of American Engineers) and was popularised in this country in WWII. You can see the term SAE threads in older manuals. People also used to talk about 'Lend Lease' bolts and spanners for this system, after the American aid to Europe programme.

We had an Austin Seven once and as well as BSF and Whit threads, the electrical stuff had BA threads and anything to do with fluids was BSP. Plus one or two threads which were Austin's own invention, such as on the rear hubs.

Yes it's not surprising that metric is preferred now, but stick with AF single hex
sockets, a set of scanners, a hub box spanner and various screw drivers and you should be able to do most things on a series land rover...

42rangie · Jun 18, 2013

SAE:

Society of Automotive Engineers.

Dan_Trials · Jun 18, 2013

Hmm yeah that gets a bit confusing the further back you go! Well I think Series 2 is about as old as I could afford just now so should be ok with the smaller range hopefully!

jamesmartin · Jun 18, 2013

Dan_Trials said:
Hmm yeah that gets a bit confusing the further back you go! Well I think Series 2 is about as old as I could afford just now so should be ok with the smaller range hopefully!

if you go back before whitworth it gets even more confusing ,nuts,bolts were made to fit each other and not std at all whitworth standardised threads etc,also invented a very accurate rifle
Joseph Whitworth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dan_Trials · Jun 18, 2013

jamesmartin said:
if you go back before whitworth it gets even more confusing ,nuts,bolts were made to fit each other and not std at all whitworth standardised threads etc,also invented a very accurate rifle
Joseph Whitworth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Clever guy, so many of his ideas and inventions are still used today!

Aidso · Jun 18, 2013

thought it was mine! said:
don't go in the series section most of them still use a chisel and hammer on nuts/bolts

Bugger off. I'm trying to upgrade all my bolts to metric. And it's not a chisel it's more often a flat head and a 4lb.

Dr_evil · Jun 18, 2013

I've kept as many bolts as I can imperial, tractor shop is cheap for imperial bolts

Aidso · Jun 18, 2013

I'm just thinking ease in the future. I do have cheap 1/2 imperial but have a very good 1/2 metric. Plus metric are cheaper and easier to buy.

A/F and Imperial and spanners for ye olde Land Rovers

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