300TDI EDC Auto starting problems

Firstly an apology for a TDI starting problems thread I know there are loads out there and I've read most of them and am still not able to get her to start reliably.

I will be as clear and detailed as I can.

I purchased her a month ago and when bought she was gutless as anything but started on the button. The first thing I did was give the engine a good service, Oil, Oil filter, Air Filter, Fuel Filter, Fuel Sedimenter and valve clearances, which 80% cured the issue of gutlessness.

About 2 weeks ago I got in her in the morning started her up no problem and drove 14 miles to the vets. When I went to come home again after approx 15 minutes she wouldn't start just kept turning over and over but no sign of catching. Popped the bonnet checked all the sensors where well connected and tried to start her again, nothing. Had a temper tantrum went and got a pasty and a coffee and when I came back she fired up as if nothing had been wrong. Until 2 days ago no problems.

4 days ago got in first thing and she started fine and drove 5 miles before filling up with Diesel from the pump, no bio or veg here. Went to start her up and she turned over for ages then fired, like a diesel with no glowplugs, but that shouldn't have been an issue with a warm engine anyway. Carried on my journey of 25miles and had to do several short trips around town to visit different stores. Each time she was stopped she got progressively harder to start until she just wouldn't. Had to wait for 2 hours for breakdown recovery and when they got there they checked all the vital fluids stuck a jump pack on and she fired first piston over centre. At that I must say I was seething with rage.

Drove home fine no problems at all. Next 2 days she was awkward to start when cold or hot but started in the end each time after lots of cranking and ran fine. Until the journey home yesterday. During that journey every so often the engine would sort of stall, then recover and be fine for another few minutes. No loss of power or smoke. Got home switched her off and went in.

Today decided lets try and sort this problem and do some naughty stuff. I had a EGR deletion kit arrive so that went on. I also removed the inlet manifold and gave it a clean out to get rid of marmite like crap in the inlet. Started her up after and she was fine. Started fine twice more and then started being awkward again. So I then fitted a new battery, as the old one was half the size of a standard battery and changed the glow plugs. No improvement whatsoever. If anything it got worse.

Now its at the point where it turns over and coughs but will not catch fully whatever. Turning the key whilst doing a octupus impression confirms the glow plug relay is clicking on and off with the light and the glow plugs are glowing as they should. When the ignition is on the injection pump is making a loud fast repeated clicking noise and on one cycle I heard a thunk noise from the vicinity and then it was prepared to start.

I can see one other fault that I will rectify tomorrow but I think that the fuel cut off solonoid is being intermittent and I suspect immobiliser issues of which im at a loss of how to fix. I am a mechanic but don't normally work on diesels as my area of expertise is classic cars, and those that are diesels don't have all this ECU controlled stuff on them.

So what do you reckon am I barking up the wrong tree.

Run a live feed to the fuel solenoid on the pump. If it fires and runs and seems ok then there is a power feed problem. If that does not work, remove the solenoid, see if it runs then. Other than that, a sensor such as needle lift, crank or maf/map etc won't cause a non start condition, it will cause low power though.

Or timing of the pump could be the issue. Diesels are a sod to start when the pump is off cue even by 1 tooth but will sometimes start and run even 2 teeth out. Needless to say when they do run they are gutless.

Mudron said:

Or timing of the pump could be the issue. Diesels are a sod to start when the pump is off cue even by 1 tooth but will sometimes start and run even 2 teeth out. Needless to say when they do run they are gutless.

Click to expand...

Hmm that's a good point seller said the timing belt was changed not long before I bought it so its not inconceivable that he got the timing wrong. Oh by the way the fault ive found that im going to fix tomorrow is chaffed leak down pipes from the injectors. The rubber cover on top of the engine seems to have damaged them and I thought they looked like they could be drawing in air.

They won't draw air, I would say check the pump timing. The edc pump can compensate something like 7 degrees plus and minus. Anything outside this will not run. Anything at the edge of 7 degrees either way and it doses not have adequate room for further advance/retard. I may be wrong about the number of degrees, but you get the picture.

Although it has a two button remote my 300 TDi EDC (Jap import) has no alarm or immobiliser as standard. Doesn't let you know what's causing your starting problems but could be one less thing to worry about if you don't have an immobiliser.

Definitely got an alarm on mine i'm so used to unlocking cars with the key not a remote and if you do that on my disco the alarm goes off. Also if you insert the "spare" key without 2 button remote, into the ignition the immobiliser light comes on. So pretty sure it has one of those too.

I've taken her down to Chris Bowler at Cambrian 4x4 Farm for diagnostics hopefully he will be more successful at pinning down the cause of the fault than I have been.

Mudron said:

Run a live feed to the fuel solenoid on the pump. If it fires and runs and seems ok then there is a power feed problem. If that does not work, remove the solenoid, see if it runs then. Other than that, a sensor such as needle lift, crank or maf/map etc won't cause a non start condition, it will cause low power though.

Click to expand...

i may be being silly here but if you remove the solenoid how do you stop the engine?

hifly said:

i may be being silly here but if you remove the solenoid how do you stop the engine?

Click to expand...

Normally you'd stall it to stop the engine which is not going to be easy on an auto. The other way to stop any engine is to block the air intake. A bit of sheet steel put over the turbo intake will stop any engine.

One way to stop a runaway diesel is that method or blow a CO2 fire extinguisher down the intake that will stop it too.

as you can't be stalled to stop, just wanted the op be be aware if he tries this he will have had to work out how to stop it,

could also unscrew the fuel filter and let air in, probably the easiest way.

Stalling it can be done by undoing the bleed screw on the fuel filter as said above. Works very quickly.

Ok seeing as she still has a warranty in force I decided to play that card. It turns out that the timing had indeed slipped by approx 2 teeth.

Timing issue has now been corrected and she is starting again without the use of easy start but not as well as she should. From cold its taking 10-15s cranking to fire and when warm varies between first piston over to 10s or so cranking. She sounds better when she is running though and has marginally more guts although im sure she still has more to give.

On the bad side the independent of both partys mechanic who has done the work on her told me that she has significant play in the crank woodruff key and that the crank pulley has been welded. Add that with this little list of faults ive found the £2250 she cost seems rather steep indeed.

Back door not opening (now sorted broken spring)
Engine Issues.
Drivetrain clunk indicating worn diffs.
Rear Cross member rotten.
Boot floor rotten.
Alpine windows and sunroofs leaking.
Wipers only working on high speed.

Im not happy at all as she was advertised as close to immaculate and ideal for imediate use. She also has 12 months MOT that she shouldn't have due to corrosion.
Unfortunatly short of fix her and put it down to experience I don't think there is much I can do but im going to damn well try.

once the woodruff key is fixed, I would get the pump reset to factory values.

Given it a proper run today as instructed and its seriously not right!

Engine is running smoother and starting easier but still not starting as it should. But driveability is gone.

She is dropping to first gear on hills and loseing speed with foot flat to the floor. Climbing 16% gradients with only driver aboard an unable to go beyond the dizzy heights of 15mph. To be honest I doubt she would have the power to pull away on such a gradient at all. Seller is trying to phob me off with all 300tdi autos are slow but surely they can't be that bad.

It feels like there is no turbo boost but there is as when revved the intercooler hoses go hard quickly and at not particularly high revs. Im thinking the engine may be so worn it has hardly any compression left.

if i put my foot down in my auto on a steep hill it does indeed slow, but i can can it up birdlip hill near Gloucestershire with 3 tonnes on the back with it holding 3rd at 40mph.

Thats standard with only a decat and egr removal.

The auto's are slow to take off and slow to accelerate until re-mapped. but no way near as bad as you describe.

a compression test would help prove a lot.

Thats why im going to get one done id do it myself but my kit is for petrols so doesn't go high enough.

She doesn't smoke though at all which if the rings where gone I would expect to see.

And I know it doesn't tell very much but she isn't overly slack to turn over and she is definatly running on all 4.

Also although she is running a lot smoother with the injection timing set correctly if anything she has even less power as a result.

you say the timing is correct, but is the actual fueling correct?

Its possible that fuel pressure to the injection pump is low and I hope that is all it is. But I suspect the problem lies deeper than that.

As for adjusting the pump its an EDC so pretty much no adjustment available. ECU is picking up no fault codes.