200 tdi Head gasket disaster - Help

Hi ,

I am new to this forum and pretty new to the world of repairing older Land Rovers. I have recently replaced the cylinder head gasket on my 1994 200 tdi disco which had done 150K - I had a milky residue in the expansion tank.

I have the official workshop manual and followed it to the letter or so I thought! Anyhow I just finished refitting the gasket and putting everything back together. I did notice some moisture on the edge of the gasket near the front of the block after the tightening down process. I didn't think too much about it - I thought it had probably been squeezed out under the pressure of tightening down.

Anyhow I just tried turning the engine over and there is a now a major oil leak coming from the same area (front of pot #1). The engine seemed to turn over ok but failed to start. I am now starting to doubt whether or not I tightened down the head bolts correctly, even though I'm sure I did and scribed the top of each bolt after doing so (as suggested in the workshop manual). Is it worth trying to tighten down the bolts in the affected area or am I going to have to re-strip the head? If I just take the head off again to investigate is it mandatory to lock the injector pump and flywheel as I did the first time round, surely if the crank isn't turned and the valves not removed it shouldn't be necessary? Unless I am missing something - which is quite possible!

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated! JonH

its possible the head bolts were stretched, you should always fit new head blots just to be on the safe side

Hi - thanks for the quick reply and useful suggestion - I did reuse the old bolts as the manual suggested they should not be re-used more than 5 times which I felt was unlikely at 150k. I will order a new set ready for the next torque down.

Since posting and searching the forums I have a horrible feeling that I may have put the gasket on the wrong way round. The reason I think this is that the notches in the gasket are sitting between cylinder 1 and 2 am I right in thinking they should be between the third and fourth cylinders?

Not really sure what the significance is of fitting the gasket upside down - other than a huge oil leak! I hope I haven't done any serious damage to the head or block .....

The holes in the gasket to denote its thickness should be between cyls 3 and 4 - yer have dun it rong.There is also a problem with the latest type of gasket - if it is a genuine one.They are a multi-layer laminate and they leak oil around the feed hole to the valve gear.DONT ask me how I know.
Get it right and it will last till the engine needs a full rebuild.

Good news - No need to touch timing to do a head gasket job.

Less good news - head needs to come back off;

The job - ensure a brand new and top quality gasket goes back and is correct spec i.e one, two or three hole identifier, lots of attention to detail to ensuring mating surfaces are clean of old gasket, new bolts preferably, if re-using old bolts give them an extra 25 degrees pull down - also I tend to go around again and give all a final 5 per cent in reverse order to make absolutely certain - never had a problem giving them the extra turn. If using new bolts do it by the book. If this does not work suspect warped head - which should not be skimmed by the way on this model - mind you warped heads on these is not common.

Tip - get someone to lend a hand and gently lower head back on (I use a hoist), head is not particularly heavy, but its easy to put a dent in gasket if it does not go down smoothly in one action.

As for your starting problem that may be something different - did you undo any of the timing gear last time?

ddd11Y / eightinavee - Excellent feedback! - thank you so much. It is good to hear that I don't have to remove the timing belt cover again phew! After struggling to get the crank nut off and back on I wasn't looking forward to that bit ! I did change the timing belt and the water pump. The pump had gone and was leaking quite badly - which probably caused an over heat and the gasket to break down. I had the head checked with a straight edge and there doesn't seem to be any hint of distortion.

The gasket that was fitted to the Disco was a 3 hole one and that is what I replaced it with. I have another one here which is a 1 hole (bought in error - this has been a steep learning curve!) I can see that with the gasket fitted upside down there is one oilway/water way at the front of the head which has no gasket inplace due to a cut out in the gasket. So that explains the massive oil leak!

I think I'll start with the head gasket re-fit anthen look at the starting issue.
I did buy a kit to lock the injection pump timing and the flywheel so I will be a little disappointed if that didn't do the job properly.

Thanks again for the great answers - your help is very much appreciated.

Jon

Hi eightinavee - Thanks for the insider knowledge on the gaskets. Sounds like the latest one is the one to avoid! The one I just fitted (upside down)is a Britpart Gasket which I got from an online Landrover parts specialist. Maybe you could recommend a good gasket to use for the 200tdi which avoids these problems?

Cheers
Jon

I get mine from John Craddock Ltd, never had a problem with them - they come in a BRITPART packaging - so may be the same as the one you used.

Hi DDD11Y

Thanks for the info on the Gasket - at least I got something right! Which makes me feel marginally less stupid !

I will re-order a new gasket today and hopefully I'll be able to get everything resolved without any more disasters!

Cheers

Jon

My head gasket went not too long ago, I was advised to get the head skimmed, Got it done, all went back together no problem runs and souds great.

Did you do the cam belt at the same time as the head? Maybe there is an error there to stop it starting.

Hi,

Its good to hear that you successfully changed the gasket and that the problems ended there. I have changed the timing belt but as I said earlier I bought a kit to lock the timing gear and Injection pump- I hope it worked! I think that maybe the starting failure is related to the gasket being incorrectly fitted?

Even though the engine didn't start it managed to spew out at least half a litre of engine oil. I'm glad now it didn't start in some ways or I would have had an international environmental disaster on my hands!

Hoping to refit the new gasket tonight - I'll let you know how I get on....

Just for the record Britpart ones should be the same as the Genuine as they are bothe from Elring anyway!!

Gasket problem now sorted ! - Thanks to everyone who offered their help and advice - no oil or water leaks! So that's a 100% improvement!

Unfortunately, even with the gasket on properly it still will not start. I turned it over a couple of times but got nothing more than a slightly wheezy sound as it turned over slowly but no ignition.

I guess the timing gear needs adjustment. Not sure what the process is to reset this so I'll have to trawl through the manual tonight. It was too late by the time I finished last night to start looking at the latest problem. Any tips as to how to fix this would be very much appreciated.......

Latest Update

Ok I guess I need to reset the timing to be on the safe side. So crank bolt off again... nightmare! Timing cover and belt off. Injection pump set with locking pin and Flywheel locked in place at TDC with locking pin. I guess that I just need to re-fit the belt now and everything should work? The one thing I can't seem to resolve is that with the flywheel pin in place the woodruff key on the crank doesn't line up with the mark on the back of the timing case? I can't possibly see how it can if the Flywheel locking pin is in place - unless I have done something wrong which is quite possible!

It did line up when I rotated the crank to the point just before valve #1 was fully closed (as directed in the workshop manual) but I had to turn the crank a further 90 degree's before the flywheel pin engaged.If anyone can see anything I've done wrong please let me know as I really don't want to wreck the valve gear.

I have just re-checked the workshop manual again and it could be that I have the Flywheel pin in the wrong slot on the Flywheel, it appears there are two slots. It says that I need to use the smaller of the two. If the one I have locked into isn't the one where the woodruff key lines up with the mark timing case is it likely I have the pin in the wrong slot? Does any one know how far apart the two slots are?

Hi JonH To remove nut on crankshaft get socket and extension bar to rest against chassis turn key and starter will do the job for you. Bring the woodruff key until it points straight up towards the rocker cover. Then go to timing hole in flywheel casing Insert locking tool. You may have to get some one to move crankshaft slightly to get it locked. Set camshaft mark to ridge on aluminium casing. Slip on belt. If it wont go mark timing gearwheel and loosen the three nuts move slightly anticlockwise to allow belt on---- move back to mark tighten 3 nuts. Now tighten and torque belt adjuster. Remove locking pins turn engine twice round 720 degrees and check allignments . 2 locking pins should fit in holed and camshaft marks shoud align. Reason for this is wrong alignment and engine starts you could do a lot of damage . All bolts on a land rover that use locktite should be throughly cleaned with a wire brush or soaked in locktite removal solution, otherwise your torque settings when replacing bolts, can be incorrect, and cause damage. Hope this helps ------BB

Thanks for the detailed reply and clear advice. I will update the thread when I have managed to get everything back to together and hopefully running! Thanks again for the clear post.

Cheers

Jon

Try k-seal have a look at my site http://www.ksealit.com see the testimonials we have had reports of it fixing this and with 100 000 bottles sold in UK it has got to work more often than not.
Even landrover world mag used it and rated it said all claims proved to be justified!!!

What are you on about, I hope i have not offende anyone, as i am a land rover enthusiast, I just thought I would reccomend a product that I know first hand works, and we sell so many bottles and get such amazing feedback. I was a sceptic once too!

what is this seal **** for then

It is for fixing head gasket and coolant leaks it works very well no bull, it has sold a 100,000 bottles this year in UK. There are lots of great reports out there. I have been viewing this forum for such a long time, I have joined today and mentioned k-seal product and people on here seem very hostile towards something new, as I have said landrover world mag reviewed it and stated that k-seals claims proved to be justified. Try it I promise you will be amazed I was. Wish I had not mentioned it to be honest. Best wishes.