P38A 2.5dt FIP static timing & ominous HotStart found

In this hot hot weather cutting out at junctions is getting regular. Coupled with hot start issue it’s getting undrivable in summer but okay in winter, manageable at night.

Wammers told me day1 as a newb - read up, get the tools and get it done.
Thanks to Bagshot I have the tools, and thanks to everyone here I have the knowledge and skills (in theory )
Not working tomorrow so plan is to try get it done accurately with whole day set aside just incase I start to snap things. Got home late today but made a start, surprised how much easier & quicker it is now I’m more familiar. being clean compared to the sh*t bucket I had at first makes things betterer.
This scared me first time I dug this deep, I need it for my livelihood. Now not so bad

Disconnected battery got the plastics, ducting/pipes and manifold off.
Didn’t break a single gasket!
Beginners luck maybe...
Taken off all the fuel lines going to FIP, spill pipes and injectors out - No.5 seemed damp - Spillage perhaps.
Clear pipe off as has a kink in it I will cut off. Getting it back over the filter connector will be fun warm water is the plan.

Tomorrow I will read up and make a go of it.
One thing I’m not sure of is - how do you turn the crank by hand? Is it just socket and turn clockwise...


Is there anything else I can do to help the FIP while I’m at this stage?

Yes, I use a breaker bar as it sits at the right height while looking at the dial guage.

Cannot remember if you have done the pump seal kit but if not leaking I'd leave it. I suspect you're heading for a new FIP anyway.

Easier to get to the rear seal, the one next to the block, with pump off. It can be done in situ but it is a bit fiddly.

One thing to remember DO NOT TURN ENGINE BACKWARDS, ok a tiny little bit.

Static timing will not cure stalling, that is a quantity servo problem. Recon pump is the only way forwards.

and plug the ends of all the fuel pipes too...

Grrrrrr said:

Easier to get to the rear seal, the one next to the block, with pump off. It can be done in situ but it is a bit fiddly.

Click to expand...

Taking the pump off will result in a whole new world of pain. See biketeacherdave's 'how to' on doing the seals if you need to. It's really not too bad to do.
Good luck

Repairing leaks on a pump were the engine is stalling at junctions on steering input or when slowing at lights is a complete and utter waste of time and energy. An exchange pump is required.

Seals are fine - no leaks

wammers said:

Static timing will not cure stalling, that is a quantity servo problem. Recon pump is the only way forwards.

Click to expand...

Yes you made me aware.
Next year maybe depends on funds/next MOT outcome (was nearly scrapped when I bought it 9mnths ago).

Idea (your idea ) is with static set correctly if it does cut out, I will be able to restart engine.
not a fan of the hotstart ‘fix’ and doubt it will help as i have no lift pump. This FIP has done143000 miles, it will die soon enough.

How much is a D.Jones recon unit?

RangeRoller dt said:

Seals are fine - no leaks


Yes you made me aware.
Next year maybe depends on funds/next MOT outcome (was nearly scrapped when I bought it 9mnths ago).

Idea (your idea ) is with static set correctly if it does cut out, I will be able to restart engine.
not a fan of the hotstart ‘fix’ and doubt it will help as i have no lift pump. This FIP has done143000 miles, it will die soon enough.

How much is a D.Jones recon unit?

Click to expand...

No lift pump is certainly not helping, but hot start would if it starts ok cold. Because it enables glow plugs and sets cold start fuel even when engine is hot.

RangeRoller dt said:

Seals are fine - no leaks


Yes you made me aware.
Next year maybe depends on funds/next MOT outcome (was nearly scrapped when I bought it 9mnths ago).

Idea (your idea ) is with static set correctly if it does cut out, I will be able to restart engine.
not a fan of the hotstart ‘fix’ and doubt it will help as i have no lift pump. This FIP has done143000 miles, it will die soon enough.

How much is a D.Jones recon unit?

Click to expand...

AS Wammers says, no lift pump is not helping. Before digging yourself into deep and maybe unnecessary cack, replace the lift pump. The FIP may be able to pull fuel through when cold, but as things expand when hot is no longer able to do so.
Ignoring an obvious problem is never a good idea.
If you don't fancy doing the in tank pump, fitting a FACIT pump into the line to the filter is a short term easy fix for not a lot of cash.

Thanks guys,

I filled the tank to the brim - this usually helps (not for doing tank). Runs bob on in cold but in this heat it would take weeks to run out of fuel. If this works I will run it down then look at In tank pump.
Only tried Wammers flow test so far - got zero. Maybe wiring, I have a sneaky suspicion there isn’t pump in there or it is bodged and seized.

After much procrastination, weathers cooling (a little!), my choice of weaponry -

Let’s hope I get the right flywheel pin in right one Going for cam lobe vertical (as seen through oil cap) - BTDC cyl1 on compression stroke, then clockwise crank rotation til pin clicks in.

Wish me luck, you will have fun when I am in tears later this evening

RangeRoller dt said:

Thanks guys,

I filled the tank to the brim - this usually helps (not for doing tank). Runs bob on in cold but in this heat it would take weeks to run out of fuel. If this works I will run it down then look at In tank pump.
Only tried Wammers flow test so far - got zero. Maybe wiring, I have a sneaky suspicion there isn’t pump in there or it is bodged and seized.

After much procrastination, weathers cooling (a little!), my choice of weaponry -
View attachment 182644
Let’s hope I get the right flywheel pin in right one Going for cam lobe vertical (as seen through oil cap) - BTDC cyl1 on compression stroke, then clockwise crank rotation til pin clicks in.

Wish me luck, you will have fun when I am in tears later this evening

Click to expand...

I still think you are looking for trouble. First rule of diagnostics, fix the obvious faults first.
There are FIPS arpound with 200K miles still working. My project car is on about 167K, the modulation is at 70%, hot starting takes a bit of cranking but otherwise it runs fine since I fitted a new in tank pump.

I'm now on 210.000 and doing...errrr.... I'm not going to say it out loud.....

I think it may be an old pump with a new top on it on closer inspection. Think the bottom is the original 143000 miler

My method does have premise -
There are only 3 possibilities that exist.

1) nothing changes (FIP dead)
2) I kill it (FIP dead)
3) it helps (like everything else you guys have shown me)

Therefore I have a 2/3 chance of no change, but 1/3 chance of improvement at no cost other than my time.
Good as win win

RangeRoller dt said:

Thanks guys,

I filled the tank to the brim - this usually helps (not for doing tank). Runs bob on in cold but in this heat it would take weeks to run out of fuel. If this works I will run it down then look at In tank pump.
Only tried Wammers flow test so far - got zero. Maybe wiring, I have a sneaky suspicion there isn’t pump in there or it is bodged and seized.

After much procrastination, weathers cooling (a little!), my choice of weaponry -
View attachment 182644
Let’s hope I get the right flywheel pin in right one Going for cam lobe vertical (as seen through oil cap) - BTDC cyl1 on compression stroke, then clockwise crank rotation til pin clicks in.

Wish me luck, you will have fun when I am in tears later this evening

Click to expand...

Your tools of choice look a bit stylish for you, where’s the hammer gone

Learning with your own labour is the cheapest/best way to learn, and if you lose nothing but time go for it

J

I would go with the gurus and sort the tank pump out first amazing what a decent supply of fuel can do

Rubberknees said:

I would go with the gurus and sort the tank pump out first amazing what a decent supply of fuel can do

Click to expand...

I would tend too agree.
But he has a 30% chance of an improvement, and a 100% chance of learning something

J

I agree with everything said

Static timing is a known issue that I can do today. Lift pump is another known (there are more being a RR ). Hopefully with both done FIP will last bit longer, long enough for me to buy and learn how to do chains!

list Is getting shorter and I’ve not spent a fortune.
I’ve had everything explained to me so well that even as a ‘non-nvq happy amateur’ I haven’t encountered anything out of my depth yet. The fact that I can do this stuff is testament to all you lot

marjon said:

Your tools of choice look a bit stylish for you, where’s the hammer gone

J

Click to expand...

Yes bit posh for me (and delicate )

The hammers there but I had to get a bigger one
Didn’t want to undo flange nuts too much, the chain tension will interfere with the readings and the FIP is gunked on. The claw hammer made the readings sort of bounce back and fore, larger one guaranteed rotation toward engine only without the bounce

I had to take off the viscous fan, and therefore harness across front to get it out, in order to get access to the crank.
I used a 22mm short socket with 1/2” drive, i slotted a plastic pipe over it so I could reach while reading the gauge - nice one Grrrrrr
This worked really well as the play in the plastic allows smooth adjustment with low constant pressure
Placed the timing pin (LRT 12-108) ready faced to flywheel, put in the correct gauge holder (make sure gauge bits are on tight) and took oil cap off. As you turn it chuffs and jumps a little. When the cam lobe on cyl1 is vertical you are at 90* BTDC on compression stroke. insert dial and push in to preload to 2mm, then clamp it in tight. Make sure it seated all the way in before preloading.

You are now ready to take first reading.

Slowly turn crank and the reading will drop until it bottoms out. When this happens the compression drops and it jumps so take care/time. When it stops decreasing turn the gauge so needle now reads zero. Continue to turn SLOWLY while watching the gauge and holding the flywheel pin in, when the pin clicks in - that’s your reading

Mine was 1.15mm over few readings (closely correlated mean average) bad but good as plenty of room for improvement.
Should be 0.90 for vehicle with 20,000km+

0.95 for new engine setup.

I took a few practice runs to get the feel of it, then many readings by resetting everything back to cam lobe vertical and 2mm of preload. I wrote them down as I went.
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