Nodge68
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I'll try that. I swapped the pump relay and wiggled the box and wiring but that had no effect.
I'm currently looking out a wiring diagram.
V6 Sudden Power Loss
- Thread starter Nodge68
- Start date
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I'll try that. I swapped the pump relay and wiggled the box and wiring but that had no effect.
I'm currently looking out a wiring diagram.
Nodge68
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I checked over the fuse box today. The relay is working correctly and it's contacts are clean and firm. I looked at the plug under the fuse box. That also looked clean and tight.
I thumped the fuse box. I wiggled the fuse box. None of these things made the engine splutter or stop.
So I removed the relay while the engine was running. To my surprise, the engine ran for nearly 10 seconds after I'd pulled the fuse. It ran so long, I was beginning to think I,d pulled the wrong relay.
So this is going to make finding the fault more tricky due to the delayed response to the pump shut down.
Investigation will continue.
I thumped the fuse box. I wiggled the fuse box. None of these things made the engine splutter or stop.
So I removed the relay while the engine was running. To my surprise, the engine ran for nearly 10 seconds after I'd pulled the fuse. It ran so long, I was beginning to think I,d pulled the wrong relay.
So this is going to make finding the fault more tricky due to the delayed response to the pump shut down.
Investigation will continue.
Danielsand
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Your next check point should be the shrader valve under load. I suspect the fuel delivery, either due to the electrical problem, or the pump itself.
jedi
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Where does the spark come from on these engines?....is it one ht coil block or are there coils on the ht leads?
Nodge68
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DIS system with a coil for each cylinder. The ECU picks up a fault on them too, I checked. I'm sure it's a fuel delivery problem, the engine ECU is programmed to ignore delivery problems, assuming that it is fuel surge.
I still have to check the pump and the pump earth too.
Nodge68
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Well this morning I had a real go at this power loss fault. The fault has been getting worse over the last couple of weeks.
Earlier this week I was beginning to doubt that I was going to make it to work, the power loss was so bad.
Mid week I thought I'd do a running current test on the fuel pump. This showed no real problem, the pump current was a stable 6.10 Amps.
One thing I had noticed after this weeks bad running, the fault really shows its self after a longish period of running, particularly if I switch off for a few minutes. After the restart, the engine was all over the place, with stalling, hunting and power loss.
I hunted out a fuel filter, as I suspected that it was the original. The vehicle has only done 41800 miles, but giving the amount of fuel it uses, the filter will have cleaned a lot of fuel.
Now rather oddly, all petrol Freelanders have the fuel filter in the tank as part of the pump assembly.
This means that the pump has to be removed from the tank and stripped to its component parts to replace the filter.
The filter that I found was slightly different in the way it seals, this ment making up a new seal but it was easy to do.
While the pump was in pieces, I think I might have found the fault. I noticed that the electric connections to the pump looked like they have been getting hot.
This would follow the fault and the fact that it is worse when the fuel level is below 1/2 a tank.
I'm guessing that the connections warm up if fuel isn't in contact with them. The plastic boot on the+ wire had begun to shrink, as they do when heated.
So I cleaned the pump connections and squeezed the spades on the feed wires.
I also noticed that the filter is before the pressure regulator. This means the filter passes every drop of fuel the pump passes. This would clog a filter much faster than an in line filter design.
So I rebuilt the pump assembly, refitted it into the tank and tightened the locking ring.
I turned on the ignition 3 or 4 times, giving time for the pump to prime the filter and charge the fuel line.
The note given by the pump dropped as system pressure was restored.
I started the engine allowing it to idle for 10 minutes. It did have a couple of missed beats as a few air bubbles came through but I was expecting that.
I thought I'd give the system a pressure test. Not having my pressure tester to hand, I had to use some ingenuity. I have a cycle Styrrup pump with a reasonably accurate gauge. This hooked up to the schrader valve on the fuel line worked well giving a nice steady 50+ psi of fuel pressure.
After this I gave the engine a good blast. It was amazing how much power it now has. Planting the throttle in first resulted in instant wheel spin (currently FWD) the TC kicked in and the Freelander surged forward at a pace I'd forgotten it could muster. The tacho needle raced round to 6700 before the box selected 2nd. As 2nd engaged, the tires let me know with a screech that engine was connected to them once more. I kept my foot hard down until I hit the legal limit and eased off.
So the engine has definitely got its power back, I suspect that a new filter has a lot to do with that.
As to whether the fault is gone, time will tell.
I've put on a few pictures. A couple are out of focus but I'm sure you will get the idea.
Earlier this week I was beginning to doubt that I was going to make it to work, the power loss was so bad.
Mid week I thought I'd do a running current test on the fuel pump. This showed no real problem, the pump current was a stable 6.10 Amps.
One thing I had noticed after this weeks bad running, the fault really shows its self after a longish period of running, particularly if I switch off for a few minutes. After the restart, the engine was all over the place, with stalling, hunting and power loss.
I hunted out a fuel filter, as I suspected that it was the original. The vehicle has only done 41800 miles, but giving the amount of fuel it uses, the filter will have cleaned a lot of fuel.
Now rather oddly, all petrol Freelanders have the fuel filter in the tank as part of the pump assembly.
This means that the pump has to be removed from the tank and stripped to its component parts to replace the filter.
The filter that I found was slightly different in the way it seals, this ment making up a new seal but it was easy to do.
While the pump was in pieces, I think I might have found the fault. I noticed that the electric connections to the pump looked like they have been getting hot.
This would follow the fault and the fact that it is worse when the fuel level is below 1/2 a tank.
I'm guessing that the connections warm up if fuel isn't in contact with them. The plastic boot on the+ wire had begun to shrink, as they do when heated.
So I cleaned the pump connections and squeezed the spades on the feed wires.
I also noticed that the filter is before the pressure regulator. This means the filter passes every drop of fuel the pump passes. This would clog a filter much faster than an in line filter design.
So I rebuilt the pump assembly, refitted it into the tank and tightened the locking ring.
I turned on the ignition 3 or 4 times, giving time for the pump to prime the filter and charge the fuel line.
The note given by the pump dropped as system pressure was restored.
I started the engine allowing it to idle for 10 minutes. It did have a couple of missed beats as a few air bubbles came through but I was expecting that.
I thought I'd give the system a pressure test. Not having my pressure tester to hand, I had to use some ingenuity. I have a cycle Styrrup pump with a reasonably accurate gauge. This hooked up to the schrader valve on the fuel line worked well giving a nice steady 50+ psi of fuel pressure.
After this I gave the engine a good blast. It was amazing how much power it now has. Planting the throttle in first resulted in instant wheel spin (currently FWD) the TC kicked in and the Freelander surged forward at a pace I'd forgotten it could muster. The tacho needle raced round to 6700 before the box selected 2nd. As 2nd engaged, the tires let me know with a screech that engine was connected to them once more. I kept my foot hard down until I hit the legal limit and eased off.
So the engine has definitely got its power back, I suspect that a new filter has a lot to do with that.
As to whether the fault is gone, time will tell.
I've put on a few pictures. A couple are out of focus but I'm sure you will get the idea.
Attachments
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Epicuser
Ex Freelander Owner
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Sounds great. I hope this has sorted it for you.
Eveious of the power of the petrol v6 and the 6700 red line. 4500 seems so low. The TD4 does have a reasonable turn of speed if you keep it in a lower gear and mine has masses of torque. Possibly more than the v6. But there is nothing like a high revving petrol. (Apart from maybe a 4.0d BMW Diesel engine
)
Eveious of the power of the petrol v6 and the 6700 red line. 4500 seems so low. The TD4 does have a reasonable turn of speed if you keep it in a lower gear and mine has masses of torque. Possibly more than the v6. But there is nothing like a high revving petrol. (Apart from maybe a 4.0d BMW Diesel engine
)weirdbeardmt
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I definitely need to do the fuel filter on my v6 I think!
Nodge68
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Sounds great. I hope this has sorted it for you.
Eveious of the power of the petrol v6 and the 6700 red line. 4500 seems so low. The TD4 does have a reasonable turn of speed if you keep it in a lower gear and mine has masses of torque. Possibly more than the v6. But there is nothing like a high revving petrol. (Apart from maybe a 4.0d BMW Diesel engine
The tacho red line is actually 6500 rpm. My tacho over reads by 200 rpm up that high. On the live data the box shifts up at the 6499 rpm limiter.
The diesel makes more torque than the V6 but because of the lower rev limit, never makes the same bhp as the V6. My engine is actually a second hand ZT 190 unit so should make a fraction more power than the original Freelander engine.
BMW had a part in the Freelander's design, the fuel pump locking ring is even stamped BMW!!
Nodge68
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I would. Check the pump motor connections at the same time. Mine definitely showed evidence of heating.
Get the correct filter, I didn't which added 1/2 an hour to the job. I'm pleased I appear to have found the fault too.
I used the Freelander this morning for a 20 mile drive with a short stop. It ran faultlessly so fingers crossed, it's fixed. Although I'm not 100% sure that the pump locking ring is fully tightened as I could smell petrol when I got in it first thing.
Nodge68
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Yes, there always is. The black stuff is carbon off the pump motor brushes.
Nodge68
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Just a quick update.
It's been over a week and 250 miles since I changed the fuel filter and cleaned the fuel pump terminals.
So far, the fault seems to have vanished. The car has more power too, holding in higher gears for longer on hills.
So hopefully this little fault has been sorted.
Thanks to everyone who helped with ideas.
It's been over a week and 250 miles since I changed the fuel filter and cleaned the fuel pump terminals.
So far, the fault seems to have vanished. The car has more power too, holding in higher gears for longer on hills.
So hopefully this little fault has been sorted.
Thanks to everyone who helped with ideas.
weirdbeardmt
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Hi Nodge. Can I just check something - on the V6 is there just a fuel filter in the tank accessed under the rear seat? Have just ordered this: Famous Four - Part Information for FF005454 - Fuel Filter - Freelander 1998-2006 Models
is that right? do i need anything else and is it a big job to swap it out?
weirdbeardmt
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Just found this from another thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqN31PpuK3I... where did he get that locking ring removal tool from?
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Nodge68
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I would hope that the filter is the correct one, especially at that price.
The pump needs to be stripped to its component parts to replace the filter. It's not a difficult job though. Just have a container handy and plenty of kitchen towel to mop up and spilled petrol.
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Nodge68
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I didn't use the locking ring tool. A large flat bladed screw driver and light hammer work just as well.
Refitting requires some muscle to hold the ring down while turning to get the thread started. After that, it's just a case of knocking the ring back to the place it started.
weirdbeardmt
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How much was your?
Nodge68
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I'm tight so found one for £5.89. It wasn't quite the same. I had to make up a slightly different seal for one end.
I did find the correct filter for around£15 though.
weirdbeardmt
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Crikey. Don't want to diss the sponsor but that's some mark up.
