tracking

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no1birdman

Well-Known Member
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stoke on trent
just done passenger side track rod ball joint , now can not get it checked till next week, but as adjusters siezed i can adjust on track rod ball joint only, steering wheel now off centre to right, do i screw track rod ball joint in or out a couple of turns, i know i can take wheel off, seperate joint screw one way , put back then try again, but that meens doing it twice,
 
no1birdman said:
just done passenger side track rod ball joint , now can not get it checked till next week, but as adjusters siezed i can adjust on track rod ball joint only, steering wheel now off centre to right, do i screw track rod ball joint in or out a couple of turns, i know i can take wheel off, seperate joint screw one way , put back then try again, but that meens doing it twice,
Click to expand...

Why you asking? If you move wheel round the rack won't be centralised! Do it properly, stop whinging:)
 
not whinging, but a easy adjustment could turn into a nightmare with bolts on tracking siezed, you would have to buy inner arms or drill out brocken bolts, would do that when i at to. this way is easy for now and could save at least 100 pounds on new inner arms
 
just put it right,used a tape measure to get them straight, going to invest in a trackrite laser thing about 70pds to set it up, can use it then on other cars,garage charge about 25pds so should pay for itself.
 
used tape measure? :eek:
have you taken into account things like slip angle and thrust angle with this high tech peice of wizardry?
 
old school method. can be 4 axle stands and a bit of fishing wire, but this can still be very wrong.
 
bah for £15 at national tyres i'd do that. I dont care if it cost me less in the long run, tracking is a pain in the arse and i'd happily pay somone to do it
 
ive always used a string line from the rear wheels to align the front
I know this isnt an exact science but its always worked for me, ive never suffered any vibrations or uneven tyre wear, although i do only use it for green laning i often have to travel over 200 miles on the motorway to start laning
 
Sorry to put a downer on things.

Front wheels on cars are set up using the rear wheels as a datum. Most cars don't have the ability to adjust all the settings on the rear wheels, like a Freelander does. The cheap wheel alignments available are just that. Cheap. They may say 4x4 or laser4x4track or something fancy but they don't check the rear wheels are ok first, prior to setting up the fronts. So keep this as a warning from someone who's been done by this before.

I have a trackace :) It shines a laser from one side to the other. On the other side is a mirror reflecting the laser back to the first side. You then move the mirror to the first wheel, and see measurement. This is very good and works. But you have to remember this measurement is the difference between the wheels, and not if the steering is straight ahead. Afterwards you'll feeling if the steering is out by driving so you can play by moving both wheels to one side to correct this, by the same amount.

There's a 4 wheel version of trackace promised, but it's not out yet. You can use the same kit to do the rear wheels, but this is where the fun starts. As above the trackace witll give the difference between 2 wheels only. Freelanders have a rear thrust angle (steady) which means the wheels are pointing forward, and pushing the car forward equally. So first you set the rear wheels ok with the trackace. The put 2 parallel fishing lines one either side of your Freelander. Measure width front and rear of the fishing lines to get them parallel. Then measure the distance from the lines to a center point on each wheel. Now move the fishing lines so they're parallel to the car with the wheel measurement set equidistant. Width of the front track is different to the rear, so bear this in mind and work to make sure fishing lines are still parallel. Now check the width of the fishing lines again, then check the wheel distance to fishing line again.... Keep doing this until the fishing lines are perfectly parallel to each other, and the car. Now adjust the rear wheels so they is both the same distance from the fishing lines, and also set correctly with the track ace. Job done. :)

There's a video on you tube about using the trackace and I put links up before to other forums, which show the fishing line method.

I set all my wheels to the same measurements the main dealer set them too when I paid for a proper 4 wheel alignment and steering geometry some years ago. Both my rear wheels were pointing too far inwards, and both too much to the left if I remembers correctly. Fixed the pulling to the left now. And increased mpg from 16.5 to 17.5mpg :D
 
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Hippo said:
Shorry to put a downer on things.

Front wheels on cars are set up using the rear wheels as a datum. Most cars don't have the ability to adjust all the settings on the rear wheels, like a Freelander does. The cheap wheel alignments available are just that. Cheap. They may say 4x4 or laser4x4track or something fancy but they don’t check the rear wheels are ok first, prior to setting up the fronts. So keep this as a warning from someone who’s been done by this before.

I have a trackace :) It shines a laser from one side to the other. On the other side is a mirror reflecting the laser back to the first side. You then move the mirror to the first wheel, and see measurement. This is very good and works. But you have to remember this measurement is the difference between the wheels, and not if the steering is straight ahead. Afterwards you’ll feeling if the steering is out by driving so you can play by moving both wheels to one side to correct this, by the same amount.

There’s a 4 wheel version of trackace promised, but it’s not out yet. You can use the same kit to do the rear wheels, but this is where the fun starts. As above the trackace witll give the difference between 2 wheels only. Freelanders have a rear thrust angle (steady) which means the wheels are pointing forward, and pushing the car forward equally. So first you set the rear wheels ok with the trackace. The put 2 parallel fishing lines one either side of your Freelander. Measure width front and rear of the fishing lines to get them parallel. Then measure the distance from the lines to a center point on each wheel. Now move the fishing lines so they’re parallel to the car with the wheel measurement set equidistant. Width of the front track is different to the rear, so bear this in mind and work to make sure fishing lines are still parallel. Now check the width of the fishing lines again, then check the wheel distance to fishing line again.... Keep doing this until the fishing lines are perfectly parallel to each other, and the car. Now adjust the rear wheels so they is both the same distance from the fishing lines, and also set correctly with the track ace. Job done. :)

There’s a video on you tube about using the trackace and I put links up before to other forums, which show the fishing line method.

I set all my wheels to the same measurements the main dealer set them too when I paid for a proper 4 wheel alignment and steering geometry some years ago. Both my rear wheels were pointing too far inwards, and both too much to the left if I remembers correctly. Fixed the pulling to the left now. And increased mpg from 16.5 to 17.5mpg :D
Click to expand...

Peops don't understand geometry beyond basic tracking and that's pushing it some times! think the real answer may be to pay some one who knows how to do it or there'll be loads of ****ed cars! Saying that some alignment centres haven't a clue and don't understand when you tell them they're doing it wrong!
 
Diesel Do said:
Peops don't understand geometry beyond basic tracking and that's pushing it some times! think the real answer may be to pay some one who knows how to do it or there'll be loads of ****ed cars! Saying that some alignment centres haven't a clue and don't understand when you tell them they're doing it wrong!
Click to expand...
I completely agree.

Main dealer will charge £150+vat to do a complete 4 wheel alignment with steering geometry. I paid several tyre fitters to do mine. You can easily pay up to £50 and they’ll only do the front wheels, despite calling it a 4x4 track. The thing to watch out for is they fit the laser pack to the rear wheels and point this to markers put on the front wheels, only. This won’t set up rears. Also garages with the clever 3D checkers only put kit on the front wheels to find their position. Hence only checking front wheels. A complete industry rip off in my opinion. I really struggled to find somewhere to get mine done other than main dealers. Hence my own set-up. I did mine on the basis the main dealer would do it next if I couldn’t.
 
Hippo said:
I completely agree.

Main dealer will charge £150+vat to do a complete 4 wheel alignment with steering geometry. I paid several tyre fitters to do mine. You can easily pay up to £50 and they’ll only do the front wheels, despite calling it a 4x4 track. The thing to watch out for is they fit the laser pack to the rear wheels and point this to markers put on the front wheels, only. This won’t set up rears. Also garages with the clever 3D checkers only put kit on the front wheels to find their position. Hence only checking front wheels. A complete industry rip off in my opinion. I really struggled to find somewhere to get mine done other than main dealers. Hence my own set-up. I did mine on the basis the main dealer would do it next if I couldn’t.
Click to expand...

It's mainly ignorance! It's Chinese whispers training in the centres, staff don't stay long and it gets dumbed down each time it gets passed on eventually leading to a **** job! I've done the training with Mercedes, they had pulling issues so we all had to do it, it was the rear thrust angle that made them follow the camber! We had to offset it to make them steer up the camber from the rear to stop the pulling! That's lost 95% of the Peops here!
 
well thats the way i have done it for the past 40 odd years , trackace thats what i might buy to play with, for me as long as tyres wear even and it drives straight a 32nd of an inch out either way i can live with, I am sure i can measure well enough, never bothered with back end tracking none of my cars have ever had it i dont think, except for mx5 and that runs straight and true,. Had one done at a garage once only adjusted one side steering wheel a mile out, when checked myself. wheels were straight but track rod end only hanging on with about 3 threads,
 
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Think my rears were out due to hitting a kerb. Either that or a truck pulling out. Also oft road use. Rear end only needs doing if front is ok, steering is straight, but it still pulls the steering wheel to one side. Rear thrust angle is just the same method as front wheels so it's easy to check. Lifted my mpg by 6%. I do same regular trips.
 
no1birdman said:
well thats the way i have done it for the past 40 odd years , trackace thats what i might buy to play with, for me as long as tyres wear even and it drives straight a 32nd of an inch out either way i can live with, I am sure i can measure well enough, never bothered with back end tracking none of my cars have ever had it i dont think, except for mx5 and that runs straight and true,. Had one done at a garage once only adjusted one side steering wheel a mile out, when checked myself. wheels were straight but track rod end only hanging on with about 3 threads,
Click to expand...

That's what I was getting at with training on how to do it properly! A lot of professional places just don't know how one adjustment affects another and you end up with a different problem!
 
Diesel Do said:
That's what I was getting at with training on how to do it properly! A lot of professional places just don't know how one adjustment affects another and you end up with a different problem!
Click to expand...

Had that with a Ford Escort many years ago .. nowhere could track it up properly, eventually stripped the whole system and re-built it so all adjustable bits worked, and tracked up with no problems.

just 'cos they have a machine doesn't mean they know how to use it properly!
 
now if i buy a trackace i could check it against one done at a dealers, then set mine and people could borrow it and set theres if they were local, are the different years and models and wheel size set the same, i usually go for no toe in or out .
 
Dom2599 said:
Had my tacking done on monday (4 wheel) at local tyre and exhaust centre, cost me £39, so happy with that
Click to expand...
May I ask if you saw them actually measure the rear wheels and adjust them if needed, for that price?
 
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