Td4 auto no drive whatsoever??

Last weekend I had a look at the poorly Freelander with my Hawkeye. It's an X plate early 2001 Freelander 1 td4 automatic gearbox with 5 doors on about 115k miles. Armed with tea and jammy dodgers so we set to work.

Faults:
When turning the key to position 2 (electrics only) the speedo jumps up to max. The mileage counter counts up by itself, even thought the engine is not running and the Freelander is stationary. During our playing it clocked up another 90 miles while the ignition was on for a total of about 30 minutes.
The engine starts ok but it doesn't drive forwards or backwards in any gear. The dash does NOT display F4 flashing.
Usual rear passenger lock/window fail, and the fish tank in the boot was full.

The main problem is the Freelander doesn't drive forwards or backwards. The engine starts ok every time. The auto lever moves ok, and the LED by the lever reports the correct position PRND421. The dash also reports the correct PRND421, sport when sport mode is selected and 1 or 2 when manually selecting gears. So that proves the barrel connector carrying the lever position signal is ok, and the dash also supports this. When selecting Drive or Reverse the engine doesn't rock or move and you don't hear any difference in sound. So it's as if there's no additional load on the engine when selecting a gear. The engine revs up ok if requested.

Previously it was driving along quite happily when it lost power. The engine was still running but there was no forward or reverse drive. There was no bang, screech, whine or quack, from what the driver said. The speedo fault where it jumps to max miles per hour and counts up the miles by itself even with the engine on or oft, with the Freelander stationary. This started happening a few months prior to the loss of drive.

Previously it's had 2 different diagnostics and neither could talk to the auto gearbox computer. My Hawkeye could talk to it and retrieve/clear codes. Fault codes are as follows:

Auto gearbox computer:
P1605 faulty controller eeprom (rave says: error flag set)
P0734 gear 4 incorrect ratio (rave says: out of range)
P0735 gear 5 incorrect ratio (rave says: out of range)

The auto gearbox codes all clear ok, but P0734 and P0735 come back. The eeprom error doesn't bother me too much as this seems to pop up regular on my Freelander and others too. There's no signs of oil leaks. We didn't check the condition of the gearbox oil as it was late. We didn't check the fluid level.

We didn't open the barrel connectors on the auto gearbox wiring harness as the resistance measurements were ok, and the connectors were tight. In hindsight it would be a good idea to open the connectors just to check there's nothing bad. The collar turn to open them. But to be fair we have tested both of them enough to have faith they're ok. A quick look won't do any harm.


Engine computer DDE4:
P0480 fan short circuit to ground or open load
P0500 vehicle speed signal can speed signal invalid (signal fault)

Code P0480 clears but code P0500 stays. The first time we tried to get into the engine computer we struggled but every time after that it seemed ok. I get this too on mine, random comms errors when using ma Hawkeye. So that doesn't bother me too much. P0500 is the bigger worry as this relates to the vehicle speed sensor causing a fault. The auto gearbox has a vehicle speed sensor inside it but the resistance measurement is within spec. The fact that it states the vehicle speed sensor value is invalid tie's up with the dash display miles per hour jumping to max when the electric or engine is on. We measured the resistance of the vehicle speed sensor and it's within spec.

There has been an issue where the fans don't work. I proved this is not the case as my Hawkeye could tell the fans to switch on and they did, at varying speeds as requested. So that proves the fans work, but doesn't prove the circuit/request to switch the fans on is ok. I assume the engine computer reads the coolant temp sensor and this triggers the fans starting if the coolant is too hot.

The engine computer reads live data ok, like the coolant temp and battery voltage. It's strange to see the vehicle speed is 3km/hour on the Hawkeye (it was stationary) but I don't know if this is the same on another td4 Freelanders. If someone has a Hawkeye and a td4 can you check the vehicle speed in the engine DDE4 live data menu with the ignition turned to position 2, electrics only. My v6 displays 0km/h. We could also control the radiator fans manually to prove they work, from within the engine computer actuator menu on ma hawkeye.


ABS computer MK20:
5E32 BLS electrical fault (brake light switch?)
5D90 front left sensor electrical fault (we measured it and it's open circuit)
5E15 can interface egs timeout
5DA0 front right sensor electrical fault (we measured it and it's open circuit)
5E17 can gear plausibility

When clearing these codes they all go except 5D90 and 5DA0 which refer to the two front abs sensors failing.

These fault code are difficult to trace as they're not standard P codes. The main problem is both front abs sensors are open circuit. The callipers have been changed at some point and we measured the resistance of the abs sensors and they're both open circuit. We also measured one of the rears to prove our theory, and that was about 1100 ohms. The rear prop is already removed so we lifted one rear wheel and turned it whilst watching ma Hawkeyes abs live data option. Speed went fro 1km/hour to 2 or 3. So that's proves the abs computer is reading live data and working to some extent.

Rave says: "...Failures or malfunctions relating to the sensor, and sensor connections, are detected by the SCS ECU. In the event of failure of two or more of the sensors the SCS ECU switches off the system and illuminates the ABS, TC, EBD, and HDC warning lamps.
...
The longitudinal acceleration sensor (sometimes known as ‘G’ sensor) is mounted in-cab near the centre-line of the vehicle alongside the handbrake lever. It provides additional information to the SCS ECU regarding vehicle motion, to corroborate inputs from the wheel speed sensors. The signal produced by the longitudinal accelerometer is used by the ABS ECU to check the plausibility of the vehicle speed signal. Where the vehicle wheel speed sensors tell the ECU that the vehicle speed is faster than the actual vehicle speed
...
The ABS ECU continually calculates vehicle speed using the inputs from all four ABS sensors. Vehicle speed is used as a reference against which individual wheel speeds are monitored for unacceptable acceleration or deceleration. Vehicle speed is also output to the instrument pack for the speedometer..."

Which makes me wonder if the abs is causing the problems due to two abs sensors failing.


Air bag computer Autoliv AC4:
33 battery voltage fault intermittent
30 open circuit on SRS warning lamp circuit

Both codes delete and we can also see data like the vin and software number etc. So that proves the air bag computer is working.

example resistance check from my Freelander, not the faulty one on this fred= Freelander 1 v6 Jatco Auto Gearbox - Measuring the Solenoid and Sensor Resistances - YouTube

We also checked the resistance of the auto gearbox solenoids and sensors. Although this doesn't tell us if the solenoids are sticking, it does at least tell us the sensors and solenoids aren't open circuit and within spec.

Sensor resistance limits (connector C0932):
Pin 5 - 20 = Vehicle speed sensor (513 to 627 ohms) = 558 ohms
Pin 21 - 20 = Intermediate speed sensor (513 to 627 ohms) = 559 ohms
Pin 24 - 20 = Turbine speed sensor (513 to 627 ohms) = 550 ohms
Pin 39 - 20 = Fluid temperature sensor (ohms dependent on temp) = 4000ohms = 10 degrees approx

Solenoid resistance limits (connector C0932):
Pin 17 is the common for all solenoid measurements.
Pin 3 - 17 = 2-4 brake duty solenoid valve (2.6 to 3.2 ohms) = 3.4 ohms
Pin 4 - 17 = 2-4 brake timing solenoid valve (14 to 18 ohms) = 16.7 ohms
Pin 10 - 17 = Reduction timing solenoid valve (14 to 18 ohms) = 17.1 ohms
Pin 14 - 17 = Shift solenoid valve B (14 to 18 ohms) = 17 ohms
Pin 15 - 17 = Shift solenoid valve A (14 to 18 ohms) = 17.4 ohms
Pin 16 - 17 = Lock-up solenoid valve (12 to 13.2 ohms) = 13 ohms
Pin 17 - 18 = Line pressure duty solenoid valve (2.6 to 3.2 ohms) = 3.4 ohms
Pin 52 - 17 = Shift solenoid valve C (14 to 18 ohms) = 17.1 ohms
Pin 53 - 17 = Low clutch timing solenoid valve (14 to 18 ohms) =17.1 ohms

Some of the limits are quite tight.


EWS 3D security:

Fault 3 = key 1 - random code tolerance increased.
Fault 0 = key 1 - identification incorrect
Fault E - engine ecu random code xor error.

We also tried the CCU security option too. From here we could see live data changes like pushing the brake pedal and something happening on ma Hawkeye. We also controlled some of the actuators to see if the computer was able to control things, which it could.


I think the way forward on this is to check if the front wheels (rear prop disconnected) are connected via the IRD to the gearbox. If you lift one front wheel and put the auto gearbox from park to neutral, the front wheel should turn. If it turns whilst in park then get someone to stop the rear prop/connection turning and try again. This would check the splines between the new and old gearbox/IRD for wear. EWS 3D also provides a live data it which compares ok. We could see values change and we exercise the Freelander.

Also open and visually check the gear box barrel connectors.

I need more time to do some more research on these faults. Video's to follow later on.

I'll have another look to see if I can find anything on the web to help us. I think either the gearbox has given up or there's an electrical fault.

HawkEye video's of the diagnostics:

Freelander 1 Td4 Auto. HawkEye diagnostic. Auto Gearbox Computer. 1 of 6 - YouTube

Freelander 1 Td4 Auto. HawkEye diagnostic. Engine Computer. 2 of 6 - YouTube

Freelander 1 Td4 Auto. HawkEye diagnostic. ABS Computer. 3 of 6 - YouTube

Freelander 1 Td4 Auto. HawkEye diagnostic. Airbag Computer. 4 of 6 - YouTube

Freelander 1 Td4 Auto. HawkEye diagnostic. Immobiliser Computer. 5 of 6 - YouTube

Freelander 1 Td4 Auto. HawkEye diagnostic. Security CCU Computer. 6 of 6 - YouTube

Info from rave and me thoughts in blue.

EAT = electronic automatic transmission
ECU = engine control unit
ABS = anti lock braking system
CAN = controller area network
TC = traction control
EBD = electronic brake force distribution
HDC = hill decent control
SCS = stability control system

Auto gearbox computer - Vehicle speed sensor:

If a failure of the vehicle speed sensor [I assume the one in the gearbox] occurs and the ABS ECU speed signal is functional, the EAT ECU will control gear shifting using the ABS ECU signal...

...If both the vehicle speed sensor and the ABS ECU speed signals fail, the EAT ECU will lock the gearbox in fourth gear (fail-safe mode) and inhibit torque converter lock-up control.

Fail safe mode isn't happening at the moment. This could be due to a secondary fault.

ABS computer
... Under the following conditions the ECU is programmed to switch off the main software driver which will result in the illumination and disabling of the ABS, TC, HDC and EBD warning lamps:
... If the following failures or errors are detected:
... Two wheel speed sensor failure

...Failures or malfunctions relating to the sensor, and sensor connections, are detected by the SCS ECU. In the event of failure of two or more of the sensors the SCS ECU switches off the system and illuminates the ABS, TC, EBD, and HDC warning lamps...

Bearing in mind both front abs sensors read open circuit when measuring their resistance. And the engine computer fault:

P0500 vehicle speed signal can speed signal invalid (signal fault)

This makes me think the engine computer isn't receiving the vehicle speed sensor signal via the can bus from the abs computer, as the signal is switched oft due to the 2x abs sensors failing.

ABS computer:
...The ABS ECU continually calculates vehicle speed using the inputs from all four ABS sensors. Vehicle speed is used as a reference against which individual wheel speeds are monitored for unacceptable acceleration or deceleration. Vehicle speed is also output to the instrument pack for the speedometer...

The speedo fault (jumping to max speed when ignition at position 2, with or without engine running) could be caused by the 2x abs sensors being open circuit, causing a loss of the vehicle speed signal from the abs computer.

Instruments (dash display)

The instrument pack is a totally electronic controlled device receiving electrical signals from sender units and CAN messages from the Engine Control Module (ECM), ABS ECU and the Electronic Automatic Transmission (EAT) ECU and transposing them via a microprocessor into analogue gauge readouts and warning lamp illumination.

Speedometer:
The speedometer is driven by CAN messages from the ABS ECU. The messages are generated by an ABS wheel speed sensor which produces pulses as the reluctor rotates. The instrument pack microprocessor processes the incoming CAN message from the ABS ECU and converts it into electrical signals for speedometer operation. If the CAN message fails for more than 64ms the microprocessor will terminate speedometer operation and record a fault flag. The recorded fault can be accessed using TestBook...

... Vehicle Speed: This signal is used to operate the speedometer and the odometer and trip functions. The signal is originated from the ABS ECU...

I think you need to buy 2 new wheel sensors and get them fitted. Have a look at the speedo and see if the fault disappears.

WOW that is some good write up Hippo,I have never known the speedo to read when the car is not moving BUT I did once notice on my old car the speedo instead of going up by one mile at a time to go up by 2

WOW Indeed!
Thanks to Hippo, I have now encountered my first level of Rocket Science!
I mean, let's be honest with ourselves, is this what we really want from motoring??
What a guy, methodical & enthusiastic.. I can't thank you enough Hippo!!

I will sort these sensors, I should be able to fit them, once old ones removed and report back with my findings.

Again, so far, you have been an absolute Wizzard trying to deduce from your 'Hawkeye's' readings.
TOP BANANA!!

No problem. Fit 1 of the abs sensors and see what happens. Then do the same with the second. You could just plug them in and keep then away from stuff rather than fitting, just to see if having the resistance loop working, sorts the dash speedo issue.

When I lost drive in my V6 it was down to the nut becoming loose on the selector arm at the gearbox end,therefore when the gearstick was moved all it was doing was moving the wire to the gearbox through the selector arm. Tightened it up and slected gears as normal. Not you'r problem I know, but could be useful to others.

It would be nice if it was!!
One problem is managing to get it up on ramps as it doesn't drive, but I'm sure I can do that somehow, and will just to check that out.

So, hoping for these sensors so I can at least try that... it looks & sound logical!
If not, well,.... we are moving house very soon, so it's looking like the freelander is a bit of a burden really now.... decisions decisions.....

Yer gear lever works ok as the LED's by it switch correctly. They're directly fed oft the switch on top of the gearbox, which is controlled by the lever.

One test you need to do is confirm if the spline connection between the gearbox and IRD is ok and not worn. This test will also advise of other problems too.

If yer VCU and/or prop is removed:
Turn engine oft.
Chock any rear wheel.
Put the handbrake on.
Turn ignition to position 2 electrics only.
Put the gearbox in Park (in any gear for manuals).
Lift 1 front wheel oft the ground.
Turn the wheel oft the ground and you won't be able to (will turn a very small amount due to gear teeth etc). The IRD pinion output won't turn.
Now put the auto into Neutral (neutral for manuals too).
The wheel oft the ground should now turn. You'll also see the IRD pinion output turn when you turn the wheel.
Lower wheel to the ground and lift the other front wheel oft the ground and perform the same test.
The result should be the same as before with the other wheel.
If the wheel turns whilst the gearbox is in Park (or in gear for manuals) then something is wrong. It may not be the spline connection between the IRD and gearbox failed. Could be something else.

If yer VCU and props are fitted:
Turn engine oft.
Chock left rear wheel.
Release the handbrake.
Turn ignition to position 2 electrics only.
Put the gearbox in Park (in any gear for manuals).
Lift the right rear wheel and right front wheel oft the ground.
Turn the front wheel oft the ground and you won't be able to (will turn a very small amount due to gear teeth etc). The IRD pinion output won't turn. The rear wheel oft the ground should only turn the same amount as the front wheel (will turn fully if you overcome the resistance of the vcu but don't bother doing that for this test).
Now put the auto into Neutral (neutral for manuals too).
The front wheel oft the ground should now turn. You'll also see the IRD pinion output turn when you turn the front wheel. Hence the rear wheel oft the ground will turn at the same time when you turn the front wheel.
Lower both wheels to the ground and move the chock on the rear left wheel to the rear right wheel.
Lift the left rear wheel and left front wheel oft the ground.
Turn the front wheel oft the ground and you won't be able to (will turn a very small amount due to gear teeth etc). The IRD pinion output won't turn. The rear wheel oft the ground should only turn the same amount as the front wheel (will turn fully if you overcome the resistance of the vcu but don't bother doing that for this test).
Now put the auto into Neutral (neutral for manuals too).
The front wheel oft the ground should now turn. You'll also see the IRD pinion output turn when you turn the front wheel. Hence the rear wheel oft the ground will turn at the same time when you turn the front wheel.
Lower both wheels to the ground.
Apply handbrake. Remove chock. Switch oft ignition.
If the wheel turns whilst the gearbox is in Park (or in gear for manuals) then something is wrong. It may not be the spline connection between the IRD and gearbox failed. Could be something else.

EDIT:
If you want an easier option then give it a push forwards whilst in Park (in gear for manuals) and Neutral. It should only move when in Neutral. If it moves when it's in Park (or in gear for manuals) then there's something physically wrong.

While I'm ere...

EDIT: I should add they have made a lot of changes to the software since I wrote this and upgraded hawkeye's for free.

Hippo said:

While I'm ere... My posts on this fred wrongly paint a picture of the Hawkeye being a perfect product for diagnosing faults. It's not. Some of the menu options don't work. Some options reports data which is incorrect, or completely nothing to do with it. In particular the auto gearbox section which is annoying as that's the reason why I bought it in the first place. Both Bearmach and Omitec go out off their way to tell me they make and own the hawkeye product. I wish they would decide between themselves an tell us. The one thing they don't do is produce a manual for it. Perhaps they don't know how to use it themselves. :doh:

Click to expand...

nothing does that for all faults you have to use diagnostic skills as well ,there are very few sensors in box or engine

jamesmartin said:

nothing does that for all faults you have to use diagnostic skills as well ,there are very few sensors in box or engine

Click to expand...

If you make a product and sell it on the market you should at least test it. The complexity if the info given is down to LR (or whoever wrote the auto's computer software) writing the auto software in such a way that it makes the data available, and the hawkeye software peeps collecting the info and displaying it correctly. They must have something available. Even if they cut down their own internal document to give us some pointers.

not issues ive encountered except misreading is usually faulty sensor or fault all builds a story eventually to reallity

The hawkeye seems to provide the same wrong results for loads of perfectly working auto's, so we can only assume it's the hawkeye at fault.

The Freelander in question has loads of different faults. Just being able to read all the codes and clear them in all the computers is well worth it. I can't help thinking it's got electrical faults causing this but a few mechanical checks like above would help. The age, mileage and number of faults make it a nice little project. But chucking money at something like this is difficult when we know the faults, but can't always see them. All sensors read ok in the auto and the solenoids are good too, but resistance alone won't tell usd they're stuck or not being told to move. I think dropping the auto oil would be a good idea just to see what it's like.

night.

Hippo said:

The hawkeye seems to provide the same wrong results for loads of perfectly working auto's, so we can only assume it's the hawkeye at fault.

The Freelander in question has loads of different faults. Just being able to read all the codes and clear them in all the computers is well worth it. I can't help thinking it's got electrical faults causing this but a few mechanical checks like above would help. The age, mileage and number of faults make it a nice little project. But chucking money at something like this is difficult when we know the faults, but can't always see them. All sensors read ok in the auto and the solenoids are good too, but resistance alone won't tell usd they're stuck or not being told to move. I think dropping the auto oil would be a good idea just to see what it's like.

night.

Click to expand...

true the greater part is mechnical with no sensor

Well, I firmly believe that Hippo used diagnostic skills to the extreme, as well as methodical logic, IF logic is relevant to a system of computers controlling a vehicle.
I don't accept that it is and never will, it only adds to the complexity of things, the downtime and the cost, no, certainly not logical.

I think the time has come to offer my Freelander for sale, someone will be lucky & suss it I guess, but it's just in the way now and I'm having to accept that it could be a long job that I simply do not want to have to try & sort.
Shame, other than this, I'd rate it as a really good overall motor and until this I've been faithful to Land Rover for a 'couple' of decades or so......

Have a go at lifting the wheels as above to see if everything is connected as it should be. Plug in the new abs sensors when they arrive. You don't need to fit them properly. Just connect the yellow end in the same way you did when we split them open to manually measure the resistance. When the abs computer see's the resistance of the new sensor (current failed sensors are open circuit) if will change how the computer works.

Hippo,

we have SOME changes!!

Only one of the sensors arrived yesterday... a quick note of unhappiness to the seller resulted in a very apologetic response.. at least he was honest & open so no real anger there. Other one is being posted Monday.
So, I simply plugged in the new one into the female plug on the bonnet on the offside.. easiest to get at as not behind the battery..... AND, the speedometer is no longer racing up and sticking at 140mph!!! so that is a result in a small way.. I'll await the other new one and see if that does anything else.
It's obviously told the car's computer something... I've even photographed the car today, in readiness for advertising it... but... there's slight hope now as something HAS altered!
I'll pm you too now.
Duke of Offley Titch

The next step is to follow the instructions in post 48. If you want an easier option then give it a push forwards whilst in Park and Neutral. It should only move when in Neutral. If it moves when it's in Park then there's something physically wrong. Without knowing this there's not much point trying to change the auto's oil.

If yer engine revs drop when you put it in gear this is a good sign. But if there's something worn like the spline connection between the auto and IRD then that's a big problem. The above test will tell you if the spline is ok.

I'm loving all this thanks Hippo.. I am learning in a strange kind of way.. it's all good knowledge for the brain to store... then relate to it if & when required.. my trouble is the brain doesn't store so much so well these days...

I'll do the test with wheels off the ground in the week time permitting.
Again,
THANK YOU

Any luck with the tests?