starting problem

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like a doughnut erm looked in my haynes manaul , doh

starter motor 147
 

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now the diagram of the starter motor

just thought it easier to see the route of the wires , colours and where they go

as its a usual fault wonder if the ignition switch is faulty,?????
 

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GrumpyGel said:
Its quite clear in the Rave PDF. This is the page I've been looking at....

http://www.mydocz.com/Landie/KSeriesStartingCircuit.jpg

You'll need to zoom in on this image and the quality isn't good, so best go to the Rave PDF directly.
Click to expand...

this may sound madness but as the starter motor goes through quite a few circuits etc

could the internal fuses be pulled to see if something is triggering the blown fuse

did read though not to pull fuses for ecus as it can cause damage to them

relay oxygen sensor looks part of the circuit

what about the inertia switch under the bonnet etc ???
 
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GrumpyGel said:
The only complex bits it goes though are the fuse box and relay box housings. Other than that its wire.
Click to expand...


yeh been looking through the circuit and the relay box

wonder if anyone was near the op with a hawkeye or diagnostic to plug it in for him

know if he was near me would have happily plugged the hawkeye in and help all I could
 
GrumpyGel said:
I'm still thinking its corrosion/earth around fuse F1, or the wire from there to relay, or possibly the relay is caput. Its got to be one of those because that feed does not go past the relay when the ignition is not at crank.
Click to expand...

Ive changed the fuse box and the relay box with ones from my donor hippo.
 
Hi Stebo, any news? I was just about to post about some experience somewhat similar on a Ford a few years back. Same issues to that. Silly me (never again!), was trying to tighten the alternator bracket mount without having d/c the negative terminal on the battery.. what happens? My arm slips and a skinny part of a metal screwdriver falls in and comes in to contact with the internals of the alternator, a massive spark is then seen! The symptoms that you have followed. It wouldn't start and kept on blowing one particular fuse. I would replace it, it would blow it again. Turned out to the a relay that had gone. Replaced the relay and all was fine. Given it had resulted in sparking, i removed that alternator and put in a known working one. The electrical system is usually set up so that a relay will usually knacker itself out rather than major components being affected. That was on a 99 Ford Festiva though. We can forget about this idea as you said you've removed the engine compartment relays box with one which works fine from another Hippo....
 
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niccage said:
Hi Stebo, any news? I was just about to post about some experience somewhat similar on a Ford a few years back. Same issues to that. Silly me (never again!), was trying to tighten the alternator bracket mount without having d/c the negative terminal on the battery.. what happens? My arm slips and a skinny part of a metal screwdriver falls in and comes in to contact with the internals of the alternator, a massive spark is then seen! The symptoms that you have followed. It wouldn't start and kept on blowing one particular fuse. I would replace it, it would blow it again. Turned out to the a relay that had gone. Replaced the relay and all was fine. Given it had resulted in sparking, i removed that alternator and put in a known working one. The electrical system is usually set up so that a relay will usually knacker itself out rather than major components being affected. That was on a 99 Ford Festiva though. We can forget about this idea as you said you've removed the engine compartment relays box with one which works fine from another Hippo....
Click to expand...

Yep, relay box been replaced. A mate told me to take the belt off of the alternator and start the car. He said if the fuse still blew then it had nothing to do with the alternator. The fuse did blow so the altenator has been ruled out.
 
I know it's a long shot as you didn't remove the ignition barrel, but I also know someone once who changed the heater matrix and damaged the ignition barrel in an attempt to remove some components around the steering wheel that wouldn't budge.. can you rule out a faulty ignition ? Though I note you driving through the puddle probably had nothing to do with it. Would water have splashed over the main computer in the engine bay? Have you removed it and checked that there's nothing loose or damaged in it's connection, etc? Does it unlock/lock normally with the key and all other electrics apart from starting? Or is there also an issue with other electrics (without starting)? The RAVE CD has a complex schematic diagram of all of the different grounding points in the vehicle, but even if you drove through a puddle, i dont see why you'd go checking ground points, unless you did some work on it before like removing the gearbox, etc, for which you would have needed to remove one or more of the ground connections, etc.
 
I have replaced the ignition switch and the immobiliser ring today but fuse is still blowing. Here is a list of the things ive replaced. Let me know if ive missed anything please.

Starter motor (twice)
Battery
Ignition switch
Immobiliser ring
Relay box
Fuse box
Starter to battery wire
Starter to relay wire
Earth from battery
Cleaned connections
 
stebo88 said:
I have replaced the ignition switch and the immobiliser ring today but fuse is still blowing. Here is a list of the things ive replaced. Let me know if ive missed anything please.

Starter motor (twice)
Battery
Ignition switch
Immobiliser ring
Relay box
Fuse box
Starter to battery wire
Starter to relay wire
Earth from battery
Cleaned connections
Click to expand...

christ mate no wonder ur going up the wall

trying to rack my brain in what it could be

I don't know if looking in the owners manual or haynes and pulling every fuse out u don't need for the car to start if it would help in any way

would be a great start to just allow the car to start without the fuse blowing

wonder if a sensor could do this

but that's just clutching at straws

will have another look through the net and see if i can see anyone else having this problem

trouble is also car wiring techs could be expensive to resolve , so after the fuse has blown do u then replace the starter motor fuse with the engine running , must be a royal pain and feel for u mate
 
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As you're happy jumping the starter solenoid. Disconnect the wire from Fuse F1 to Starter Relay at the fuse - this will take the relay and wire out of the equation. Then Jump the solenoid from battery.

If it still blows the problem must be in the fuse box (presumably!) - not further down the line in the wires/Relay.

I think its time to get an auto electrician on it though.
 
GrumpyGel said:
As you're happy jumping the starter solenoid. Disconnect the wire from Fuse F1 to Starter Relay at the fuse - this will take the relay and wire out of the equation. Then Jump the solenoid from battery.

If it still blows the problem must be in the fuse box (presumably!) - not further down the line in the wires/Relay.

I think its time to get an auto electrician on it though.
Click to expand...

Fuse box has been replaced so i dont see how that could be the problem. I do believe you are right and its time for an auto electrician to have a look. Trouble is they are so bloody expensive!!
 
gstuart said:
christ mate no wonder ur going up the wall

trying to rack my brain in what it could be

I don't know if looking in the owners manual or haynes and pulling every fuse out u don't need for the car to start if it would help in any way

would be a great start to just allow the car to start without the fuse blowing

wonder if a sensor could do this

but that's just clutching at straws

will have another look through the net and see if i can see anyone else having this problem

trouble is also car wiring techs could be expensive to resolve , so after the fuse has blown do u then replace the starter motor fuse with the engine running , must be a royal pain and feel for u mate
Click to expand...

Heads up my arse mate.

When the fuse blows i just wait until i need to start it again then either replace the fuse or bump start it.
 
stebo88 said:
Heads up my arse mate.

When the fuse blows i just wait until i need to start it again then either replace the fuse or bump start it.
Click to expand...

u didn't happen to buy ur starter motors from the same place , could it be a bad batch , ????

shame u wernt nearer to me as I would have helped u all I can

two heads better than one

so could have gone through it with a fresh set of eyes

but maybe it may be time for an auto electrician but agree there expensive

just feel sorry for u mate and wish I could help u more as it must be very frustrating

I know I'm clutching at straws here but

would unplugging all the sensors, including the lamba one, spraying both plugs with electrical cleaning spray and reconnecting them work ??

also do the same with the 12 v starter motor lead, alternator plug

everything that could be unplugged and sprayed then reconnected

know it has a warning of never unplugging the main ecu as it can cause damage

had another thought , inside ur ecu box do u have a fan in there , as I wondered if it could spray water inside the box and over something and pop a fuse

just clutching at straws

has someone got a diagnostic machine near u , would it tell u anything

also spraying ur abs sensors

did u fix ur rear brake light , lol

will be interesting to see how it goes and if we need to break u out of the nearest nut house where you've lost all ur sanity
 
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gstuart said:
u didn't happen to buy ur starter motors from the same place , could it be a bad batch , ????

shame u wernt nearer to me as I would have helped u all I can

two heads better than one

so could have gone through it with a fresh set of eyes

but maybe it may be time for an auto electrician but agree there expensive

just feel sorry for u mate and wish I could help u more as it must be very frustrating

I know I'm clutching at straws here but

would unplugging all the sensors, including the lamba one, spraying both plugs with electrical cleaning spray and reconnecting them work ??

also do the same with the 12 v starter motor lead, alternator plug

everything that could be unplugged and sprayed then reconnected

know it has a warning of never unplugging the main ecu as it can cause damage

had another thought , inside ur ecu box do u have a fan in there , as I wondered if it could spray water inside the box and over something and pop a fuse

just clutching at straws

has someone got a diagnostic machine near u , would it tell u anything

also spraying ur abs sensors

did u fix ur rear brake light , lol

will be interesting to see how it goes and if we need to break u out of the nearest nut house where you've lost all ur sanity
Click to expand...

No mate one starter i got from my mates freelander n the other i got from a freelander i bought for parts.
Tried spraying all the connections. Got a couple more wires to replace if they dont work then its time for an auto electrician.
 
Unplug the O2 sensor then start the car. Check the wiring isn't melted/wound up. The heater on the sensor can blow fuses. I believe a couple of MGF's have had this problem...so maybe worth a shot?
 
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