Oil leak

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MoreWork

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TD4 2006 Getrag box
Hi, bit of a mystery oil leak - what do you think.
Clear fluid dripping from the bell housing area, looks like gearbox or IRD but which? New clutch, slave cylinder and all seals just fitted. It dripped before the job and it still drips now. Your thoughts?
 
Hi Ian, drive shaft oil seal - no both new and dry. The leak is showing in the bell housing area which is engine/gearbox/IRD join in the middle. ?
 
If its dripping from the bell housing and you have just had a new clutch and slave fitted...take it a back as they have probably damaged the seal on the guide tube that the slave sits on.......this will allow gear box oil to leak past the gear box input shaft.......although there is another seal where the ird attaches which can also leak.....but if it defiantly leaking from the bottom of the bell housing I would say its the guide tube which will require the gear box out again.
 
If its dripping from the bell housing and you have just had a new clutch and slave fitted...take it a back as they have probably damaged the seal on the guide tube that the slave sits on.......this will allow gear box oil to leak past the gear box input shaft.......although there is another seal where the ird attaches which can also leak.....but if it defiantly leaking from the bottom of the bell housing I would say its the guide tube which will require the gear box out again.

? td4 uses a concentric slave cylinder theres not much chance of damaging seals on guide ,though concentric is easily damaged
 
Thanks for the replies:
mjrimmer - Take it back, well I've already sort of done that because it's me that fitted it, lol. More info> I can't believe I've bent the release bearing carrier, I know what you mean, it is a flimsy pressing that comes with the seal already fitted and it's a new one. The funny thing about this job (if there was a funny bit about taking boxes out) is that it dripped slightly BEFORE the job was done which is why I sprayed it with seals everywhere so as not to take it out again.
jamesmartin> I've seen no level drop in the NEW clutch master cylinder yet, can't see it being the slave seal. I haven't ruled any of the above out, anythings possible, eventually!
At the moment I would look toward the IRD large 'O' ring seal, which is new. I fitted it with a bit of molybdenum di-sulphate grease (black or graphite grease) as recommended but I wonder if I'd squirted blue gasket sealer around it we would not be here now? If that leaked it would still show at the same place - bottom of bell housing (lowest point).
Or what else???
 
should be straight forward to check if its gear oil (ird )or transmission fluid or engine oil,if input shaft in bell housing was leaking it would be nothing to do with removing/refitting box and is the kind of thing youd expect someone to notice when fitting a new concentric
 
Right, well the new IRD oil and the new gearbox oil are both more or less clear and if you had one drop of each on different fingers you can't tell the difference. It's not engine oil that's just standard black. Original gearbox oil is red and IRD is light amber, the new oils are clear and clear/amber in one drop both look the same. As for smell in one drop each is not detectable. I can only work with one drop that I catch the rest is along the road. It basically leaks when the wheels turn so when the gearbox output/IRD input shafts are active. The leaking oil is very thin and leaves no trail to trace back.
Inside the bell housing - nothing out of the ordinary.
James - how would you test if it was gearbox or IRD oil? I was thinking maybe collect some and burn it (not the car, well not yet anyway) then smell it. Maybe?
 
Let the drips fall onto some kitchen towel. IRD oil is normally a light gold colour, as is the gearbox oil. Both are oil so will feel slippery if rubbed been your fingertips. Clutch fluid is lighter than oil, almost clear and not being an oil isn't slippery between your fingers.
It's unlikely to be IRD oil. It's most likely from the gearbox input oil seal.
 
Hi Nodge68, if I had to bet now I'd say it was gearbox oil. If you forget about the drive shaft oil seals gear box oil has 2 seal places it can leak from - 1. the gearbox input shaft and 2. the gearbox output shaft. The gearbox output shaft is where the IRD plugs in and has one large 'O' ring seal and one standard lipped seal and both fitted in and on the IRD housing. These two retain the gearbox oil.
Another standard lipped seal is used in the IRD housing to retain IRD oil and is about 9mm from the first seal, they are fitted in the same hole back to back and are non directional seals. If anything here leaks it will run down and end up at the bell housing. If the front seal leaks it will end up at the bell housing.
The gearbox input shaft seal comes as a unit already fitted into the release bearing carrier and this assembly is new and should not be leaking.
At the moment the whole thing is a bit odd - it was leaking, took it to bits, replaced clutch and all seals, still leaking??? Oh yes, and both breathers are clear (box and IRD).
 
? td4 uses a concentric slave cylinder theres not much chance of damaging seals on guide ,though concentric is easily damaged

Yep it is a concentric slave.....but as far as I have been told to change it you need to remove the guide tube which has two seals and the one that seals the input shaft is easily damaged in the process .....there is a Valeo info sheet on thier web site stating this and they recommend replacing it when changing the slave..........mine leaked like a right bastid after my clutch change and needed the box dropping out again and a new guide tube.
 
Hi James & mj thanks for your effort. More info: If it is cold started and left ticking over it takes 15-20 minutes to drip. If I start and drive around the block it drips. So, it takes a long time to drip if not driving meaning it does not look like an engine speed drip. If switched off it does not drip. From this you would say - if the gearbox output shaft is turning (and causing agitation of oil in that area) it leaks. If the gearbox output shaft is turning it is then driving.
After all these years I really don't think that I've done something wrong! Before the whole lot comes out again I would like a positive target to shoot at first, if that's possible. It drives spot on, shame about the drip.
 
id just clean it up and see where leaks coming from ,an output shaft or join of ird to g/box will be evident if its just from lowest point of bell housing it will be input shaft
 
Yes I do try to do that, when I stop I dive under and watch the last few drips. A problem is that because it is so thin it just blows back and sprays everywhere including the cross member (tested no more than 30 mph).
I tell you what I've just thought of - what if the large 'O' ring on the IRD housing was wrong, what if the cross section size was too small, that would leak gearbox oil (not IRD oil). Alternatively, I am now going crazy.
One thing never answered - before I touched it, it leaked, after I'd done the job it still leaked - I would say it may leak slightly worse. We cannot be looking at the unthinkable - a crack or pinhole in the casing - nooo.
I'll do another test and try to narrow it down. Airflow will splat it allover.
 
Update: I've tested, wiped,tested again and I've got a few photos. There's nothing absolute it's generally dripping from a few places because it's widespread. Now it's IRD and box out, got to get to the bottom of this, got to analyse everything and get a definite cause. I'll post back when I get round to pulling everything out, maybe next week?
Meanwhile I'll be checking back here for any more thoughts. Thanks for your help so far.
 
Hi Jedi - IRD breather tube - no it's not that, I've remade that join with an 'O' clip - the squeezy type. It's dry. If you connect a bit of pipe to the steel breather loop at the top and blow down it you can feel it's holding pressure, taking the fluid level plug out relieves the pressure proving the breather is clear whilst still fitted to the car. A modification I might do is to use a longer flexible pipe out of the IRD, shorten and single flare the steel pipe to make a joint that is 100% easier to connect/disconnect next time?!? what next time, it's not coming out again after next time, maybe.
 
I've been to the pub and everything has become clear - I think I know what's happened, the proof will be next week+ (clue - not a good initial result).
 
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