Lost key & fob now dealer says needs new ECU

debhen said:

Thanks guys.

The queens cheese -I will look into this as a possibility I hadn't thought of. Thank you.

Gary - I have no better half so no toes being stepped on here. I really appreciate you going to so much trouble for me.

It seems I need to argue again with the main dealer.

I am just worried that I will pay to have car trailered to them and they will then tell me they cannot programme it and say I need a new ECU just as they told me I would. At that point I then have the choice of paying them a huge amount of money, or paying a breakdown company to uplift my (still not working) car back home again and am back to square one.

I wish my local dealers weren't such *******! I hate being ripped off.

I am just struggling to find anyone who will programme it apart from them.

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ok no probs, just feel so sorry for u and will do a bit more digging for u, but didnt want to upset anyone

can u ring them monday and talk to the manager , plus the other dealers you've spoken to have they also said u dont need an ecu , as if they say 100 percent u dont need one and agree with what my dealer is saying could u join the rac or AA etc , or maybe if u explain the situation to the dealer they may pick it up for u .

in the mean time will see if i can find a company that does programming for u to give u another option ,

as a thought i wonder if bmw do it as its a bmw key etc

Gary

You are very kind. I didn't know it was a BMW key, does the fact it's a Freelander with a LandRover ECU not cause problems with getting another manufacturer involved?

Ironically it was the Service Manager who has now told me a new ECU is needed. I have already advised him that all of his other staff there failed to inform me of this during my many previous visits/phone calls. He said that is unfortunate but that they were parts guys and probably did not realise!? I told him it is their job and if they did not know something they should check before giving prices etc.

debhen said:

Gary

You are very kind. I didn't know it was a BMW key, does the fact it's a Freelander with a LandRover ECU not cause problems with getting another manufacturer involved?

Ironically it was the Service Manager who has now told me a new ECU is needed. I have already advised him that all of his other staff there failed to inform me of this during my many previous visits/phone calls. He said that is unfortunate but that they were parts guys and probably did not realise!? I told him it is their job and if they did not know something they should check before giving prices etc.

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your very welcome, ive always been helped before and always nice to help someone when u can as it costs nothing

shame about the manager being a right git, doesnt help u does it , as time goes by you've still not got a car

it doesn't matter about who codes the key, its just a software program that is able to communicate with the ecu and key and for them to work together

shame i didnt live nearer as i could have towed ur car to a dealer that would code it for u

but i was assured by my dealer an ecu is not required when just using a new key but has the same coding

hopefully i may be able to find a company for u, but maybe someone else may know from previous experience about a company that can do it

hi

found this company

MG & Rover Code Service. EKA | RADIO | KEY. Online or Telephone 01379 669375.

as the freelander has the same engine as the rover 75 , so they may be at least steer u in the right direction

will post up any more links that i find in here for u

http://www.jsf4x4.co.uk

gary

Is the link I sent you no good? at least one other member has used them and were happy.

If its pre 2006 they will provide a fob for £59.99 + £24 which is refundable (when you have programmed it yourself via their instructions, then you just send the programmer back to them).

I know you've paid for a fob and the programming of it...just tell them that you don't need these anymore and ask for your £109 back ...worth a try.
As you have the key already cut for the car then this should be all you need unless you don't want to hang around waiting for the postman ...which is understandable... good luck

If you order a replacement key through a main dealer it will come cut for your vehicle and the transponder will be programmed with your vehicle identification data.

up to VIN 242164 A replacement key will arrive ready for use. The EWS-3D will recognise the first use of the key and will initiate the random rolling code from then on. T4 can also be used to enable or disable keys, if a key is lost for example.

from VIN 242164 T4 is needed to syncronise the rolling code so a trip to the dealer will be needed.
There are 14 spaces in the security ecu for new keys and once they are full ie 14 key have been issued the dealer when ordering a new key will be informed that a new ECU will need to be also ordered.

Plips are ordered blank and programmed seperatly but not needed to start the car.

owl said:

If you order a replacement key through a main dealer it will come cut for your vehicle and the transponder will be programmed with your vehicle identification data.

up to VIN 242164 A replacement key will arrive ready for use. The EWS-3D will recognise the first use of the key and will initiate the random rolling code from then on. T4 can also be used to enable or disable keys, if a key is lost for example.

from VIN 242164 T4 is needed to syncronise the rolling code so a trip to the dealer will be needed.
There are 14 spaces in the security ecu for new keys and once they are full ie 14 key have been issued the dealer when ordering a new key will be informed that a new ECU will need to be also ordered.

Plips are ordered blank and programmed seperatly but not needed to start the car.

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that makes a lot of sense, i expect its the second vin as its a 2006 , out of curiosity where did u get the info of the 14 keys codes plse

so with that in mind the dealers are then just trying to cover themselves as they dont know if 14 x codes have already been put i to the ecu

i assume my hawkeye will only reprogram remotes and not keys, or if it would show the eku number

thanks for the info as ive just found it interesting , yeh i know need to get out more lol

gstuart said:

that makes a lot of sense, i expect its the second vin as its a 2006 , out of curiosity where did u get the info of the 14 keys codes plse

so with that in mind the dealers are then just trying to cover themselves as they dont know if 14 x codes have already been put i to the ecu

i assume my hawkeye will only reprogram remotes and not keys, or if it would show the eku number

thanks for the info as ive just found it interesting , yeh i know need to get out more lol

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I am a master tech at a main dealer and been mending Land Rovers since 1983

I don't know about Hawkeye but perhaps they can syncronise rolling codes. I had a bloke trailer his P38 in a few weeks ago to have his new key coded which again only needed syncronising which he could have done at home by just putting it in the ign and turning it on.

owl said:

I don't know about Hawkeye but perhaps they can syncronise rolling codes. I had a bloke trailer his P38 in a few weeks ago to have his new key coded which again only needed syncronising which he could have done at home by just putting it in the ign and turning it on.

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thks buddy, i understand the hawkeye will synch the key fobs but not sure if it can do the keys, or if it would show the eku number

i would have always thought though if a key is ordered and cut according to the vin number it should work straight away , but alas as u say its to do with the re synchronisation between the ecu and key

shame the dealers are quoting to replace the ecu without even looking at the unit first

out of curiosity what would happen if a second hand ecu was put in, keeping all the original keys and locks etc, then could the keys etc be synched to the second hand ecu

sorry asking so many questions but always like to learn new things

thks again

gary

Right on the system on your car in theory you do need a valid key to enable the key programming to take place.

This is to stop a thief ordering a key to car then being able to program it and drive away with the new key.

My advise to you is to book the car in at a Land Rover dealer and get them to try and program a key in for you.

If you weren't so far away I'd come and program it for you in situ.

But you do not need a new ECU at this moment in time.

gstuart said:

thks buddy, i understand the hawkeye will synch the key fobs but not sure if it can do the keys, or if it would show the eku number

i would have always thought though if a key is ordered and cut according to the vin number it should work straight away , but alas as u say its to do with the re synchronisation between the ecu and key

shame the dealers are quoting to replace the ecu without even looking at the unit first

out of curiosity what would happen if a second hand ecu was put in, keeping all the original keys and locks etc, then could the keys etc be synched to the second hand ecu

sorry asking so many questions but always like to learn new things

thks again

gary

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It should work, you may also need the PCM and CCU. Probably better to order a new security unit, called a Sawdoc on the latter cars because the guy that designed it liked the Saw Doctors.

The immobiliser (EWS or SAWDOC) and the engine ECU has a one time write code which can't be overwritten so if you're buying second hand you'll need a matching set of transponder key, immobiliser ecu and engine ecu as a minimum. You can then swap the transponder into the key which works the mechanical locks.

However, this is a last resort in your case as the key will be able to be programmed for your car

I can't believe how many replies there have been today - I have been working and will go through them all now believe me. Thank you to everyone

OK I think I understand most of the posts but some are getting me a bit confused sorry

Brack - I will look into the link you suggest many thanks. I don't mind waiting for the postman if it solves the problem

Owl - this is great advice thanks. My VIN number starts with 47 so is the later one (05 plate). This means the main dealer T4 diagnostic is needed, have I got that right? Will anyone else have this diagnostic equipment apart from Land Rover dealers?

Interesting about the 14 key information, this is what the main dealer in Boston must have meant when they mentioned the ECU having enough space.

Then I get a bit confused sorry

td4van - are you saying that as I don't have one of the original keys then the dealer may be right about needing a new ECU? I can't easily just book it in and take it there as explained in my earlier posts. I have no EKA code so need a flatback which will cost and if the dealers then say sorry they can't programme it, I then have no alternative but to pay £400 for the ECU or pay for it to be trailered home again.

Owl/td4van - your conversation about Sawdoc, EWS, PCM and CCU has lost me. Can you explain the relevance please?

Thank you all

Gary - thank you for all your suggestions and helpful advice. It is difficult to figure out the best way to go. I am REALLY reluctant to use these main dealers now as the bond of trust has been broken. I feel they are trying to rip me off just to make their job easier and to make as much profit as they can. Lying to customers about what is needed is so unprofessional.

Finding someone local with T4 diagnostic equipment would seem to be my best hope but I am not sure it will be possible.

Hi sorry if I've confused you!

Dealer may be right but I'm 99% certain that a key can be programmed without an original but for sure it's not 100% straight forward and I guess the dealer is erring on the side of caution.

Post 2001MY Freelanders do not have an EKA code.

Right to clear up some terms:

Immobiliser control unit - is either EWS (BMW sourced system) or SAWDOC (LR sourced system) EWS and SAWDOC are just code names to signify the type of system fitted. This talks to the key to determine if it is going to tell the engine ecu to allow starting.

PCM - Powertrain Control Module or Engine ECU - this controls the engine and talks to the immobiliser to enable starting (or not)

CCU - Central Control Unit - this controls the remote central locking (along with other functions) and this is what talks with the remote fob or plip.

Basically all those parts have something to do with locking and starting the car.

Hope that helps!

Any more give me a shout!

Surely it must be possible to just remove the immobiliser and re program the ecu to run without it, OK the motor will be mor nickable but at the end of a day its an engine, which ran without this Gubbins for long enough??, so if there's a big cost involved why not get it remapped and loose the security bit at the same time where your getting something good for your dosh, not just it to work:-D ?

I am really not sure who would/could do that for me?

Not sure but a remapping place would be my starter for 10