Start probs, handbrake smoke.

Car has been parked up with handbrake on whilst I redid the crankshaft pulley keyway repair and did timing.

Put on fully charged battery and tried her. Cranked ... but slowly and wouldn't start. Battery went flat.

Tried jumping with leads off another car. Not even cranking ... just solenoid clicking. After a few attempts there is smoke coming from handbrake.

Then off road guy turns up with his Landy. We try jumping off his car but still just clicking. So we decide to try a tow start. As he starts towing me I release handbrake but handle feels weird ( loose ) and the handbrake is seized on. He gets underneath with a hammer and frees handbrake.

Car starts easy with a tow start and I take it for a drive to charge battery.

For the rest of that day it starts off battery. Runs really well ( I'd cleaned out intercooler ). Every time I put handbrake on it seemed as if the handbrake was stuck on on release but that seemed to sort itself out.

That night I parked it on a bank in case it wouldn't start off battery in the morning ( I'd had this before the damper pulley problem ). Sure enough it wouldn't start off battery. Started within 20 yards bump starting it down bank. Started off battery all day then.

Same thing this morning ... but ...

This afternoon it wouldn't start off the battery. Battery will crank engine quite well for some time but it won't start. It bumps in a few yards every time and seems to run well.

So what is going on?

What was handbrake smoke?

Col

just a guess:confused2: wat are your earths like? did the car earth thro hand brake cable???????

You need to check all main earth cables from battery to body to chassis and from chassis to engine these will be corroded. The vehicle is using the handbrake cable as an earth and this heats it up and melts the cable to the outer sheath thus making it not release. Put a jump lead from battery neg terminal to a good earth on the engine (bolt head or the like) bet it will start if the battery is charged. Oh by the way jump starting should be battery positives connected and jumper battery negative to good earth on engine of dead battery vehicle (not batt earth to batt earth)

thanks for comfirming that gratch.

No problem. I'm that good I confirmed it at the same time as you posted

This is where we started weeks ago.

I moved the battery earth from the chassis to the timing case ( is that ok ). The lead looks in good order with no rust.

I also checked on the braided earth cable from the chassis to starter motor. It looks fine. No rust. The connection points look fine.

What other earth cables are there that I should be checking?

I tried it today jumping it from another car. Turned over and started first turn.

Let it tickover for 15 mins then tried it off own battery. Turned over really aggressively but wouldn't start.

Tried it off the other car. Wouldn't start this time.

It's been like this for weeks. I've tried loads of batteries.

There is a leak from the fuel pump throttle shaft ( small o ring ). I'm sure air gets in there when it's been standing.

After it wouldn't start today I undid bleed on top of fuel filter and pumped lift pump. No fuel squirting out of bleed.

So is this fuel related as well?

I tried the spade on the solenoid and that clicks fine with ignition on.

... but it ALWAYS starts within yards of bumping it downhill. If there was fuel starvation would it bump so easy?

It's driving me mad. When I've got it starting it's another go at that damper pulley.

Col

Col-you gotter sort that air leak ,it is not helping you at all.try running straight of a bottle of diesel in the engine bay-flow and return,to try and see where you are drawing air.Your injection pump will not perform with air in it-The extra inertia from a tow start probably over comes the air ingress to a point where she fires up-good luck

Thanks Biolandy

The o ring is 60p but I need to read up on stripping the pump before I take it's top off.

I think I've got a couple of things going on here. I re cleaned all the earth contact points this afternoon.

It jumps 10 times out of 10 now with another car but won't start on it's own battery.

I've tried several batteries in the last few weeks.

The alternator is definitely ok. Pushing out about 14.5v across battery.

The joke is ... I got the Disco because my Mondeo 1.8td blew it's head gasket. The Mondeo has sat up the drive for 5 months and not been started. I just took off the battery that hasn't been starting the Disco and put it on the Mondeo and it just started straight away.

So I put another battery on the Disco ... wouldn't start it. I then tried jumping the Disco off the running Mondeo ( with the Disco's battery ) and it starts first turn everytime LOL.

So obviously the Disco needs more cranking amps than a Mondy ... but I think this is two edged.

A diesel with fuel at the injectors and compression will start. I think the fuel pump is getting air in it and that's meaning that the engine has to turn over more aggressively to get it started. I dunno about the bump starting ... must be like you say that the inertia gets it going.

Col

Starts straight away when jumped or bumped, not air in fuel issue. Did you take all the earth points off and cleaned both the cable and where the cable is bolted to? I added an extra cable between battery and timing case but left the originals where they were after cleaning. The cable could be internally corroded or no good contact at the crimp on ends would be worth renewing the earth cables.

After your posts re earths ...

Late this afternoon I had the earth cable off and did what you mention above.

I cleaned the ends and the bolt and area where it attaches to timing casing.

After I did this it now jumps off another car first turn every time ( or at least at the moment it is ).

Will not start off own battery ( 600 cca ) ... but that battery started the Mondy that had stood for 5 months.

Maybe it just doesn't have the guts to start the Disco.

... but yes the car starts now off another car and has always bumped straight away after just a few yards. Car is running great when it's started.

Col

The thing is, the timing case is aluminium not as electrically conductive as steel. Have you taken off the earth from chassis to starter motor and cleaned that and the chassis back to shiney metal? Clean where the battery earth bolted to chassis back to shiney metal and reconnect to there and see if that works. Coat everything with vaseline after.

Have you cleaned the battery terminal clamps?

Err, aluminium is way more conductive than steel or cast iron

But I'd still bolt it to the block.

davek0974 said:

Err, aluminium is way more conductive than steel or cast iron

But I'd still bolt it to the block.

Click to expand...

Even when the current has to get through the electrolytic corrosion between ally and steel not to mention gaskets, sealer, thread lock etc

Well, I was just correcting the point, yes, having all that crap in the way won't help, it's why the manufacturers go to the engine block or starter mounting bolts.

This one is an interesting problem for sure.

skires said:

After your posts re earths ...

Late this afternoon I had the earth cable off and did what you mention above.

I cleaned the ends and the bolt and area where it attaches to timing casing.

After I did this it now jumps off another car first turn every time ( or at least at the moment it is ).

Will not start off own battery ( 600 cca ) ... but that battery started the Mondy that had stood for 5 months.

Maybe it just doesn't have the guts to start the Disco.

... but yes the car starts now off another car and has always bumped straight away after just a few yards. Car is running great when it's started.

Col

Click to expand...

Col just a thought,what voltage do you see on your battery with the ignition on-because when you are jumping it,you are putting 14volts or so straight on the lines-maybe your fuel solenoid is not playing game till 12volts plus,(or is it shutting off thru lack of volts during cranking)or maybe glow plug relay is lazy-also the alternator is in circuit with the live rail,if the diodes are going home they might be sinking power-conversley,when bumping it,the alt is turning so this could up the voltage towards 14volts or so-but as gratch says check all connections are bright and shiny-are you sure you are not missing a lead or leads somewhere

Ok Gratch ... I'll reconnect to chassis ... and I'll get down to shiny metal first.

Nicedayforit ... yes cleaned them but thankyou.

Hi Dave ... where do I connect to block. I just put the original earth lead to where it would reach on the timing casing.

Bio ... I see what you are saying ( I think ). Can I take the plunger out of the 12v fuel stop solenoid. I think I could do that on my old 309 GLD. I could do that and try it. I would have to stall it to stop it but it would elimate any problem with voltage issues and the solenoid.

Thanks for the help.

Col

Im not sure where my earth is TBH, as mentioned, if you earth to the timing case the current path is from the lead -> stud -> engine block etc, it cant pass straight from the cover to block because of the gasket.

Is there any corrosion around the starter mounting bolts?

Could be the stop solenoid getting a bit stiff.