Q : Front Recovery Points

I now have a full bullbar on the front of the Disco with a winch. Having gone over an area with the new rig, I got stuck..... Never been stuck there before and can only assume it was in part to the extra front weight being carried.
The main thing that came out of it was a need to 'replace my front' recovery points for 'snatch' purposes...

Was wondering if there were any thoughts/views on attaching a recovery eye setup via a longer 16mm bolt that would pass through the front attachment bush of the radius arm, where it is fitted to the axle.......

twodoor said:

Was wondering if there were any thoughts/views on attaching a recovery eye setup via a longer 16mm bolt that would pass through the front attachment bush of the radius arm, where it is fitted to the axle.......

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That's a pretty bad idea an a lot of different levels. If you need recovery eyes they need to be attached to the chassis properly. Having said that please film it when you rip your axle off so we can all have a laugh.

If you've got a winch - why the **** would you need to snatch???

Out of interest, what do you class as your recovery points at the moment?

hughesy said:

That's a pretty bad idea an a lot of different levels. If you need recovery eyes they need to be attached to the chassis properly. Having said that please film it when you rip your axle off so we can all have a laugh.

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(Always good to explore other options and to give non winch owners for whom front recovery points have and are an issue….)

Why would that be….. In most circumstances the vehicle to be recovered is held fast in ground by its wheels, which has lost traction or cannot overcome the force resisting the wheels. So if the wheels of a coil-sprung Land Rover are deeply embedded in soft mud, sand etc.. when recovery occurs the greatest force resisting the movement of the vehicle is applied against the front wheels.


So if I used the winch to recover the vehicle the recovery force acts through the winch mountings, back through the chassis to the radius arm mountings under the drivers door and then forward to the axle….

Current Good practice dictates the use of a sliding bridle between the attachment points on each of the rails of the chassis. This allows the recovery cable to take up a natural position between the two chassis rails and thus the force of recovery is better distributed between the two…. Although this expedient does prevent all the recovery force from being concentrated on one chassis rail it still does not load them equally.

Thus in severe or kinetic recovery, forces are generated that lead to twisting of the chassis and the only way we realise that there is damage is when we notice uneven tyre wear.

Kinetic recovery creates the greatest forces on vehicle chassis and suspension and is often to blame for damage to these essential components. . Extreme recovery forces are translated as stress in chain of components; the chassis is pulled into tension but because there are curves over the axle these forces can produce bending…..


So why not reach down through the soft stuff and hook my recovery cable onto the axle, where the pull of the cable would assist recovery by pulling the wheel up and out!....

All the recovery pull is now concentrated just inboard of the wheel at a place which can
accept forces and bending moments much, much higher than the chassis without risk of
damage

Apart from attaching a cable to the wheel itself you could not get the recovery force nearer the resistive force! Which would leave the The chassis and suspension to do the job they were designed for ...carrying the weight of the vehicle!.......

To be honest when im stuck (which is rare ) i dont have time to think about all that ^^, and neither can/could i be assed digging around in mud and sh*t trying to find a recovery point thats way under the vehicle, especially in a desperate situation, i'll continue to use my swivel eyes on the front bumper and my 2 large recovery points on the end of both my chassis rails on the rear, both of which have yet to fail and have worked 100% of the time..... and my chassis is still straight!

As for snatch recovering using an axle mounted recovery point............Good luck

Taxed said:

To be honest when im stuck (which is rare ) i dont have time to think about all that ^^, and neither can/could i be assed digging around in mud and sh*t trying to find a recovery point thats way under the vehicle, especially in a desperate situation, i'll continue to use my swivel eyes on the front bumper and my 2 large recovery points on the end of both my chassis rails on the rear, both of which have yet to fail and have worked 100% of the time..... and my chassis is still straight!

As for snatch recovering using an axle mounted recovery point............Good luck

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That was my point... Rare being stuck
The recovery wires would be tucked up out of the way and made up ready to shackle off to recovery strop. My bull bar doesn't have swivel eyes on the bumper and it wouldn't need to be a snatch recovery as a pull from the axles is an up and over the resisting mass ....not trying to drag the vehicle through it...

You did say you wanted to snatch

twodoor said:

The main thing that came out of it was a need to 'replace my front' recovery points for 'snatch' purposes...

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twodoor said:

That was my point... Rare being stuck
The recovery wires would be tucked up out of the way and made up ready to shackle off to recovery strop. My bull bar doesn't have swivel eyes on the bumper and it wouldn't need to be a snatch recovery as a pull from the axles is an up and over the resisting mass ....not trying to drag the vehicle through it...

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So you will have to rely on the driver infront not to pull too hard.... no thanks, i'll stick with my system that has worked for years

If you are going to quote from another source you should post the link so people can have a full read, rather than the edited highlights.........

Technical Review of ADR

Out of interest, what do you class as your recovery points at the moment?[/quote]

Wife.... Whilst I hold the beers and watch the beautiful Sunset!

But for the back got a Hayman Reece tow set up and use a shakle mounted hitch receiver.

Taxed said:

You did say you wanted to snatch




So you will have to rely on the driver infront not to pull too hard.... no thanks, i'll stick with my system that has worked for years

If you are going to quote from another source you should post the link so people can have a full read, rather than the edited highlights.........

Technical Review of ADR

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Again thats the point... A Technical review is just that...

I want to hear from people who have tried/failed found better ways, personal thoughts/observations... with Land Rover Disco knowledge not an outside sales pitch with vested interest...

I'm sure that fab prime minister of yours would have convinced you over briefing papers etc being a load of lies...

Again wanting options thoughts knowledge.... coz either way I can't c any clear answers so far as to how to get a front chassis mounted recovery eye set up that wouldn't foul the front end... as the chassis rails sit high...

You cannot LIFT the axle in a recovery situation, the angles are too acute asthe axle is under the vehicle.

There is a reason nobody rigs off axles and that is because it is unsafe. You are correct to assume that the axle does take force through the recovery point/bumper/chassis, but these forces are transmitted through these components before they reach the axle. If you put 1:1 strain on the axle it will come clean off.

Im not going to talk about snatch recoveries because I dont like them or carry them out.

If you want to raise your axle from the stuck position, the best way to achieve this is to use a pulley block and rigging gear off your winch to a high anchor point. This is again not recommended though.

It all comes back to having the correct rated equipment suitable for the recovery of YOUR vehicle. whether that be a suk or a 6x6 pinz.

G

werent someone advocating using a strop around the axle some while ago?

The Mad Hat Man said:

werent someone advocating using a strop around the axle some while ago?

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Cheers T M H M...Mmm rings a bell from somewhere, also seen a number of recovery agents put a strop around an axle and drag the vehicles up near vertical embankments and not necessarily with the wheels pointing the right way....l


G thanks for those words of wisdom..

Anyone got any views on 'Good' sand anchors to pull yourself towards the good stuff....

Ground anchors open up a whole new can of worms!

depending on how much room you have/what you want it to do.

X-eng longbow, D44 anchor.

folding versions: PRT, Pull Pall, ARB and the kittygripper.

I just bought one of these, its a pull pal copy. I needed it to fold (removable blade to) to fit in my 90 and dont have much room.

not sure how any of these fair in sand. best tools in sand are sand ladders and a long handled spade.

going back to your opening post, why not fit uprated springs to cope with the additional weight of your winch/bumper? its usually recommended by 'good' parts suppliers.

G

ow yer, here it is: Watch Wrong Way to Get a Truck Unstuck Video | Break.com

why NOT to rely on axle strength for recovery... get good/rated recovery points.

G

dint someone (Pikey i think) give info about ground anchors - 4ft of angle or summat?

Griffdowg said:

Ground anchors open up a whole new can of worms!

depending on how much room you have/what you want it to do.

X-eng longbow, D44 anchor.

folding versions: PRT, Pull Pall, ARB and the kittygripper.

I just bought one of these, its a pull pal copy. I needed it to fold (removable blade to) to fit in my 90 and dont have much room.

not sure how any of these fair in sand. best tools in sand are sand ladders and a long handled spade.

going back to your opening post, why not fit uprated springs to cope with the additional weight of your winch/bumper? its usually recommended by 'good' parts suppliers.

G

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It basically comes down to expense and legal issues...
Basically Australia is a multitude of different countries (States) and there are different laws on what you can have done to vehicles... Height alterations in regard of uprated springs go from needing a letter from God (vehicle inspection certificate/Engineers Report), to 20mm allowance, to straight out nothing allowed. As I move about between them (States)I don't want to get stopped in the wrong 'State' for what i've had done - as such...

So still back to the original of 'connecting' a new recovery point that A0 doesn't compromise the crush cans on the chassis and B) allows for a forward pull that does'nt impede on the bull bar.

James

Griffdowg said:

ow yer, here it is: Watch Wrong Way to Get a Truck Unstuck Video | Break.com

why NOT to rely on axle strength for recovery... get good/rated recovery points.

G

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Slightly longer, even more comical version of that vid on youtube...

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJA3J--g_yI&feature=PlayList&p=5533AADF05092F00&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=32"]YouTube- How "NOT" to pull a truck out of the mud (FULL CLIP)[/nomedia]

The best bet is some heavy duty recovery points, fitted to some heavy duty bumpers, near the chassis mount.

They will withstand a good old pull, and then you should never need a snatch (because they are ugly recoveries and feel/look/appear dangerous and harmful)

If you are concerned about sticking into the soup, consider focusing on rear recovery, instead of pulling yourself deeper with the front winch etc.

And plus, reaching down into the mud may be impossible if its thick enough, either way you'll make a hell of a mes of yourself, and then the inside of your disco.

also, having wires or ropes attqached to your axle and then fastened up to the bullbar etc is not suitable either, cos it'll either get ripped off, or hinder articulation.

all in all, a nice idea, but impractical and unnecessary!

aim for a nice steady recovery and your chassi mounts will be spot on

^^ Totally agree

Watching people recovering with those kinetic ropes really sends a shiver down my spine

Taxed said:

^^ Totally agree

Watching people recovering with those kinetic ropes really sends a shiver down my spine

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Aye, s'like twanging the knicker elastic on a fat lass. Yer never quite sure what's gunna happen!


Still worth a go though.