Probably silly questions

I don't know much about Series Landies except for the basics - reputation and so-on. Been in one once or twice, and helped my father-in-law work on restoring his 2a(? - I think) a little bit. I liked how simple and easy to work on it was, and I don't think I'm bothered about the, er, old-fashioned driving experience.

Recently I've been looking for a vehicle for work purposes. I'm doing well under 5k miles a year, all urban, mostly in rush-hour traffic. Currently I'm doing it in a BMW E30 3 series, which isn't the right car for the job - particularly given that I'm carrying enough stuff around that the E30 is packed to the roof liner.

I'm doing few enough miles that insurance and road tax on most cars costs more than a year's fuel, unless it's in something really ridiculously thirsty. That means something tax exempt and on classic car cover is a good option - in theory.

First question: is it totally bonkers to be considering a pre-73 Landy for the job? Generally, they seem to fit the bill on paper, but I don't know enough about them to say if that's true in practice.

Second question: I'm happy enough working on vehicles, especially relatively uncomplicated ones like these, but I don't have a lot of free time right now. If I buy one in good running order to start with, what's it going to cost me in time and money to keep it maintained to a decent standard? What about if I end up paying someone else to work on it?

Third: what's real-world fuel economy going to be like in urban driving? Is there much difference between petrols and diesels?

Fourth: how much does a decent tax-free runner actually cost? I'm not bothered about the looks, so bodywork and interior are unimportant as long as they're functional.

I'm sure there are plenty of other things I should be asking, but this is long enough already

Thanks in advance for all your help.

Mmmm difficult to say if one would suit you...

I bought mine new when I was 23...still drive it daily now and I am now 61,

Yes I bought it new and had never driven or been driven in one...I took the bull by the horns and dived in,

I remember the day I picked it up from the dealers...got in and drove it home thinking...what have I done...its was on 3 yeas credit and cost £2500...3000 with interest,

I only liked them as when a young lad I used to see one drive down my road every day by a young motor mechanic that lived around the corner and I just loved the look of it and Hummmm of the old Dunlop RK3 x ply tyres,

If you dont have much time on your hand that maybe a prob...they can take up your time...not being a reliable as modern cars...although I dont have to fiddle with mine so much since I removed the old 2.25d and fitted a more modern and economical 200 engine,

But I love driving it now as much as I ever did and have made many friends through it over the years,

If you only do a low mileage a petrol maybe the engine type for you...quite with more power than the old diesel but thirsty 18mpg driven hard could be much less...can be LPG though,

As long as you dont buy a dog and put your self off them from day one or pay to much...you could always flog it for what you payed,

Buy an old tax exempt and insurance for less that £100 and you should save over your BM...but getting somebody to work on it for you could be a killer...they do need fettling often...as I said...not like modern cars...you really need to be an enthusiast.

Nick.

May I suggest you don't Iimit your choice to tax exempt, its not a massive saving and a coil sprung rides a lot better and are not much more than a series. They are also still simple to work on.

jacksta said:

May I suggest you don't Iimit your choice to tax exempt, its not a massive saving and a coil sprung rides a lot better and are not much more than a series. They are also still simple to work on.

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£220 is quite a big saving imho, in 5 years you save over a grand in tax alone. Plus could always fit parabolics to the series which are almost as good as coils on the road

depends how old you are on the insurance, for most classic policies you have to be over 23, but even so the insurance should be less than a bmw.

I got quotes of £2k to add my 18 year old to our Peugeot 307 but only £600 to add him to the s3

Thanks to everyone who's responded.

nickjaxe said:

I only liked them as when a young lad I used to see one drive down my road every day by a young motor mechanic that lived around the corner and I just loved the look of it and Hummmm of the old Dunlop RK3 x ply tyres,

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I don't think I said that I've always liked old Landies - I've just never had any excuse for going anywhere near them, being a city boy. I agree, there's a lot of charm there. Not sure I should be making business purchasing decisions based on charm, but if I can get something charming and interesting that also makes financial sense...

nickjaxe said:

If you dont have much time on your hand that maybe a prob...they can take up your time...not being a reliable as modern cars...although I dont have to fiddle with mine so much since I removed the old 2.25d and fitted a more modern and economical 200 engine,

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Well, I don't mind the occasional (or even fairly regular) small jobs - finding an hour or two isn't a problem. It's those jobs that take up an entire day/weekend (or more) that I can't easily fit in.

If you only do a low mileage a petrol maybe the engine type for you...quite with more power than the old diesel but thirsty 18mpg driven hard could be much less...can be LPG though,

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18mpg? Ouch. And is that out on the open road? LPG would be fine with me except I understand you have to have the system certified annually, and that's quite expensive?

As long as you dont buy a dog and put your self off them from day one or pay to much...you could always flog it for what you payed,

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Zero depreciation is definitely a nice safety blanket. And as for an old dog, my father-in-law's came out of a swamp in Trinidad where it had sat for twenty years: if that didn't put me off...

jacksta said:

May I suggest you don't Iimit your choice to tax exempt, its not a massive saving and a coil sprung rides a lot better and are not much more than a series. They are also still simple to work on.

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£220 a year isn't nothing, but it's not the end of the world either. Depends on what the price difference is, but if it's not a lot more to buy one which is tax exempt, it would seem to be a good investment to have a '72 instead of a '74, for example.

It's also nice to have really low fixed costs. Tax-free and on classic car cover, if it doesn't go anywhere it's costing me less than a hundred quid a year.

honolulujoe said:

depends how old you are on the insurance, for most classic policies you have to be over 23, but even so the insurance should be less than a bmw.

I got quotes of £2k to add my 18 year old to our Peugeot 307 but only £600 to add him to the s3

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Yeah, the BMW is on classic cover as well - just. That works out about £300 a year for me. On a newish Fiat Panda 800cc (or some other low-powered supermini, more like £500. As white van man, something well over £1500. Old Landies are around £90-100 a year, which is a hell of a saving over anything big enough to carry lots of stuff around.

My first car was a Series 2A petrol. Yes, fuel economy was certainly not the best. I saved 2 thousand pounds by insuring the landy instead of my VW polo at 17.

The 2.25 petrol is a great engine, i've driven a 200tdi, 2.5 NA, 2.25 diesel and the notorious 19J, all transplanted into series. Yes, the first two engines are great, but i'd go with the 2.25 petrol anyday for simplicity.

Both my 2A's have had weber carbs fitted, great! They give a bit more oomph, and some say give an extra couple mpg.

I have a 2.5 N/A diesel in mine and I love it

Sure, it isnt the fastest but it'll go forever and sounds nicer than a tdi imo Serieses arent built for speed anyway so no real point pushing them too hard. Mine sits nicely at about 60 but can go beyond 70mph when needed and does approximately 30mpg out on the road

samc88 said:

I have a 2.5 N/A diesel in mine and I love it

Sure, it isnt the fastest but it'll go forever and sounds nicer than a tdi imo Serieses arent built for speed anyway so no real point pushing them too hard. Mine sits nicely at about 60 but can go beyond 70mph when needed and does approximately 30mpg out on the road

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+1 Same in my ex MOD 110, not fast but I grin every time I start and drive it, simple and very cheap bits

To be honest I've done what you've done - bought and restored a IIA 109 and used that as a daily driver for years till my back cried foul.

If you get one into decent condition the maintenance will be fluid checks and changes, tyre pressure checks and the like - they do like more attention than a get-in-and-go-box but it doesn;t have to be excessive if you deal with little problems before they become big ones.

Were I you (and i've said this to others) get in one and go for a run. If you don;t get out of it smiling rethink and perhaps move on. if you enjoy the experience then you're in the right place.

I still own my 109 nearly 20 years on and have a 110 now as daily driver - to agree with others I think the 2.5D is a great engine ('cept mine leaks..damnit). The 2.25 petrol can have very nice performance in a Series if in good nick and kept maintained and is what I have in my Series. Took that truck on a 2K mile run to Nova Scotia and back from northern Massachusetts with no more attention needed than fluid checks - so use that as an indicator of reliability.

Do your homework, then go for it - if you think it through you'll never regret owning a perpetual car.

ajr

The thing that stops them being a daily driver option for many people is comfort; driving position is not good if your 5'11" + and they are noisy, relatively tiring to drive (compared to a Discovery 1 for example) and impractical for a family (unless you get a 109 Stn Wagon).

But having said that, they are nippy in traffic (petrol), cheap and easy to repair, cheap to buy, cheap to insure, will go anywhere and they are just plain cool. Going from a BMW 3 series will be a shock mind, but I miss mine a lot just because it had character and after all the minor niggles, was very reliable to be honest

ronsealdeath said:

The thing that stops them being a daily driver option for many people is comfort; driving position is not good if your 5'11" + and they are noisy, relatively tiring to drive (compared to a Discovery 1 for example) and impractical for a family (unless you get a 109 Stn Wagon).

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I'm 6' and dont find the driving position bad at all Plus with parabolics and decent shocks fitted its suprisingly comfortable for what it is

As for impractical, in my 88" yesterday got 4 people in and absolutely filled the back with compost bags and plants and we managed okay, was only a short journey though (4 miles or so)

Also, fitting carpet underlay and carpet throughout, makes a massive difference to noise level. Did a comparison using an app on my dads phone between his td5 110 and my series and mines about 2 db higher (maxed out in town at 98 db.
Once headlining is fitted and carpeting finished I expect this figure to drop

I forgot to mention it may take 6 months before your missus will even sit in it (like mine!) Could be good or bad

ronsealdeath said:

I forgot to mention it may take 6 months before your missus will even sit in it (like mine!) Could be good or bad

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Well if you get one with a perkins fitted you wont hear her complaining about it anyway

Re: The missus:

Mine never would have a thing tto do with the 109 - if we went anywhere it was her car and no debate allowed. The 110 was a different story - she doesn't dislike riding in it especially after getting here to and from work in some very nasty weather last Winter.

Do expect a change in the status quo, though - 'Er Indoors may not be too fond of your toy.

ajr

ronsealdeath said:

I forgot to mention it may take 6 months before your missus will even sit in it (like mine!) Could be good or bad

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my other half still won't get in mine