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  #1  
Old 16th-October-2010, 21:06
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: California, USA
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Default Shredded timing belt 2002 Freelander KV6 - need help

I just bought this as a project car. It has 85k miles. I loosened the timing belt cover and the timing belt is just shredded. Actually broken. the two rear camshaft belts look good. When I loosened the timing belt cover, a couple of ball bearings rolled out. . .

So, the question is - what do I have to do to determine the extent of the damage? I know that this is an interference engine, am I fooling myself hoping that there is no head or cylinder damage?

I removed both intake manifolds. I can't visually see any bent valves.

The crankshaft is in the safe position. Is it safe to rotate the cam shafts on each head?

How far should I tear it down?

Thanks

Last edited by kim_lombard; 16th-October-2010 at 21:10.
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  #2  
Old 17th-October-2010, 18:43
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Default Re: Shredded timing belt 2002 Freelander KV6 - need help

If the belt has shredded, there will be bent valves. Heads off to find out the extent of damage, or I seen a bare engine from a Rover 75 on Ebay this morning for much cheapness. Could be a better bet than wasting time with the old engine
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Old 19th-October-2010, 15:59
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Default Re: Shredded timing belt 2002 Freelander KV6 - need help

I have the front head off. No real visible damage to head or pistons. I can see "kiss marks" where the valves contacted the piston but nothing more. Please advise. I can't buy the engine, since I live in Sacramento, CA USA. Does that mean new valves are required? What is the most likely way to proceed?

Last edited by kim_lombard; 19th-October-2010 at 16:14.
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Old 20th-October-2010, 11:45
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Default Re: Shredded timing belt 2002 Freelander KV6 - need help

Ah, never noticed that. Depends if the valve guides are damaged. Best bet is to find a good valve with no damage and see if it slides smoothly in the guides, and there is no excess play side to side in the stem

Alternatively, new guides also, but it starts getting quite expensive at that point
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Old 20th-October-2010, 18:36
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Default Re: Shredded timing belt 2002 Freelander KV6 - need help

The timing belt tensioner roller is definitely the weak part. Major scoring on the smooth surface. As I mentioned, this caused the timing belt to literaly shred. I will have to vacuum up the debris.

When I look at the head from a different angle and upon further inspection - I see that there is a nice little bend under the valve head in the stems.

I don't see any cracks in the piston head or sleeves or damage to the valve guides. Hopefully I can get both rebuilt.

The car is worth saving, I think. Body and interior in great shape. Just this one little problem. . .

Chatting about this has helped, requiring me to look further.

Thanks for this forum and your response.

Last edited by kim_lombard; 20th-October-2010 at 20:57.
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Old 21st-October-2010, 22:52
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Default Re: Shredded timing belt 2002 Freelander KV6 - need help

Both heads are off. Bent valves on both. No other visible damage. Piston tops and cylinder sleeves look ok.

What other kind of damage can I expect? Are these rebuildable? Can I get away with just replacing the valves or is it common for the timing belt failure to case damage to camshafts as well?

Just trying to find out prior to spending any additional monies on this.

thanks
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Old 24th-October-2010, 23:08
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Default Re: Shredded timing belt 2002 Freelander KV6 - need help

Below is a picture of the set-up of your engine. I changed the cam belts on mine last year. Access is a bit of a pain. First motor Iíve ever done belts on. Took a little over the book time for me to complete it.

Youíll have to judge for yourself if itís worth repair, or strip and sell parts. Value of car now, as opposed to value when fixed.

To set up the timing correctly youíll need a locking kit. Without it, itís near impossible. Thereís no marks on the engine for correct set-up, and you canít take the short cut route of marking up the old belt with markers and transferring them to the new belt, as your old one is fooked.

Laser 4577 is the cheaper version of the locking kit at UK £150 on ebay. Buy it, use it, and resell on ebay for the same price approx.

The inlet camshaft gears push onto a small hub. The hub then pushes onto the camshafts. The locking set fitís into the hub, and the other end locates in the exhaust camshaft (remove cap seal to locating hole). Thatís how the timing is set up. Hence both camshaft gears are held in the correct place with the locking tools, the crankshaft gear is in the correct place using the V marker on it, against the marker arrow on the oil pump housing behind it, and not the safe position shown on the crankshaft auxiliary belt pulley, as thatís a natís cock out. Also you don't need to buy a auxilary pulley wheel removal tool, as the the laser kit comes with a crankshaft locking pin, which fits in the engine block/fly wheel. Hence use that to remove the 22mm nut on the crankshaft.

Good luck if you go ahead with the repair.



tool not fitted in the exhaust on this one, but you can see what I mean:



Front belt



Rear belt with tool fitted Ė 2 of these to do. Markers on both gears should be inward pointing to each other, when changing. If they're outward pointing, rotate the crankshaft gear a full turn which will solve this.

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Old 24th-November-2010, 20:40
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Question Re: Shredded timing belt 2002 Freelander KV6 - need help

I have completed the head rebuild on the KV6. I purchased the Laser 4577 Timing Tool Kit off ebay/uk and used that to time it.

When I did the timing, I had the engine locked using the locking pin. (I forgot your previous advice shown in this post). The Laser set that I have has two sets of camshaft positioning tools (one for the 2.0 engine and one for the 2.5 KV6). The 2.5 set is offset slightly.

The engine starts and runs great. Only problem is top end noise coming from the front head area. If I overfill with oil it is reduced some. The noise is most noticeable when cold and parked and at idle rpm.

No DTC (diagnostic trouble codes) showing on my scanner. Spark advance showing between 7 and 9 degrees on scanner while at idle.

Could this be a timing issue?

Thanks, in advance.

Kim Lombard

Last edited by kim_lombard; 24th-November-2010 at 21:56.
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  #9  
Old 25th-November-2010, 00:26
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Default Re: Shredded timing belt 2002 Freelander KV6 - need help

I had a similar issue when I knocked the timing out by 1 tooth on the rear bank. 1 tooth out is enough to get a frightening tapping noise. Turned out to be a stone went round the belt. My engine was a bit muddy. Must have fell into the belt when putting it all back together. Front bank was ok.

Once I’d taken it apart and set it up again, the noise had dropped significantly. A mate came round and said it just needed a drive. Faced with a potentially ####ed engine (peeps always tell me it’s shit) I took it for a drive. I’d spent a little over the 5.1 hours book time to do this job. Noise cleared to my surprise. He told me it just needed oil to circulate. Haven’t a clue on this. I would act with caution if following this. Personally I only did mine as I’d been through it to the extent I was certain it was ok.

The marker on the crankshaft gear to the oil pump housing can be slightly out, with the locking pin in, which puts the other gears Ĺ a tooth out, which is also an issue. This could mean you set it up to the nearest tooth, Ĺ out, + Ĺ making it 1 tooth out, when connecting to the nearest tooth. Hence fine tuning the crankshaft gear with the locking pin removed to get the V lined up perfectly with the arrow behind it, could be the solution. You’d need to take it apart, then align the crankshaft gear to the V, then see if the timing tools fit in the camshaft gears ok. If they’re out, then you have a potential solution.



I’m not an expert on cam belts, and this was the first one I’ve done. If you like I can have a look at the spark advance on mine. When cold?

Something I wrote at the time:

Fit the main timing belt in an anti-clockwise direction, keeping the belt tort as it passes from the crankshaft gear, up and over the front timing belt idler pulley. Hold the timing belt tort and as you look towards the front camshaft gears, turn the left camshaft gear fully clockwise first. Keeping the timing belt tort, try to secure it into the camshaft gear teeth. Turn the camshaft gear anticlockwise just enough to allow the timing belt teeth to slot into the camshaft gear teeth, only if necessary. Support the timing belt in place with a soft wedge. Keep the timing belt tort as you position it round/under the water pump pulley and up towards the even bank camshaft gear. Hold the timing belt tort and as you look towards the front camshaft gears, turn the even bank camshaft gear fully clockwise first. Keeping the timing belt tort, try to secure it into the camshaft gear teeth. Turn the camshaft gear anticlockwise just enough to allow the timing belt teeth to slot into the camshaft gear teeth, only if necessary. Support the timing belt in place with a soft wedge. Keep the timing belt tort as you position it round/over the timing belt tensioner pulley. At the this point the belt should be fitted round all the gears/pulleys with any slack left in the timing belt located round the tensioner pulley wheel. Move the timing belt tensioner pulley wheel clockwise towards the timing belt. Pivot the automatic tensioner towards the timing belt tensioner pulley wheel bracket. Check the rear inlet and exhaust camshaft gears are correctly aligned on both odd and even banks. If all is ok, fit the timing belt automatic tensioner top bolt - 10mm 25Nm - and tighten both timing belt automatic tensioner bolts. Remove the 1.5mm pin from the timing belt tensioner to release the compression and allow it to take up the slack of the timing belt. DON’T remove the hex nut in the tensioner pulley wheel itself, as this is set to keep the tension correct at the factory.
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Old 19th-December-2010, 18:26
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Thumbs up Re: Shredded timing belt 2002 Freelander KV6 - need help

Just a final note on this project. I found out the the "noise" was the two rear timing belts slapping on their covers. Once I replaced both with new belts (now all four belts have been replaced with new), the car sounds like new and runs great!

I've put several hundred miles on it now, since the rebuild of the heads, and it's running strong. Certainly a learning experience for me, but rewarding never the less. I'm glad that I took the time to do the job correctly.

Thanks for this forum. I doubt that I would have been successful without the research that I was able to perform here.
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