Which split charge system? Which battery?

Hi all,

I need to put a split charge system into my 90 (1992 200Tdi). I know
I could take the Barney Bodge-It approach and buy a 40A relay and
switch and wire it up manually but I want a fit it and forget it type
approach.

Froggs Island suggested either a National Luna Battery Management
system (£170 ish) or a split charge diode pack (£60 ish) (its red and
was shown in LRO mag a couple of months ago).

Scorpion Racing also suggested the same red diode pack thing
(http://scorpionracing.co.uk) under performace/electrical section.

Question is which is best? The national Luna is more than twice the
price and all i can see it gives you is a visual representation of
battery status and a switch to link both batteries in parallel when
winching.

I dont have a winch so all I would get is a few LED's to look at and a
system that doesnt use any power (??). However, i have read that the
diode pack's take about 1 volt to run and thus the leisure battery is
never fully charged...

So, is this a problem for running things like laptops, battery
chargers, fridges, lights, etc etc? if not then i'll save my money
ang get the cheaper solutuion!


Also, when it comes to leisure batteries are the Optima's (yellow top)
really that good or could I use a deep cycle Oddesy or Exide Maxximma
Deep Cycle with just as good results / reliability and save a bit more
cash?

Thanks
Jon

> Froggs Island suggested either a National Luna Battery Management
> system (£170 ish) or a split charge diode pack (£60 ish) (its red and
> was shown in LRO mag a couple of months ago).
>

I got the national luna from south africa for about 80 quid

Its a time delayed relay system with a nice display - its a good system but
I wouln't pay 170 quid for it

Have a look at electrical wiring products they have a boat switch which can
be used and you can choose either battery

But whats wrong with the relay system for a few quid from a caavan shop

> Also, when it comes to leisure batteries are the Optima's (yellow top)
> really that good or could I use a deep cycle Oddesy or Exide Maxximma
> Deep Cycle with just as good results / reliability and save a bit more
> cash?

The others are pretty much as good and I believe they have 2 year warrenties
on them compared to optimas

Rich

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:22:34 +0100, "Rich Clafton" <rclafton at
lineone.net> wrote:

>> Froggs Island suggested either a National Luna Battery Management
>> system (£170 ish) or a split charge diode pack (£60 ish) (its red and
>> was shown in LRO mag a couple of months ago).
>>
>
>I got the national luna from south africa for about 80 quid

Did you buy off the national luna website or ring them up in SA? What
about customs / taxes etc etc? Is it just a case of giving them your
visa details and waiting for the courier man? I like the sound of
buying direct and saving cash!

>
>Its a time delayed relay system with a nice display - its a good system but
>I wouln't pay 170 quid for it
>
>Have a look at electrical wiring products they have a boat switch which can
>be used and you can choose either battery
>
>But whats wrong with the relay system for a few quid from a caavan shop
>
>> Also, when it comes to leisure batteries are the Optima's (yellow top)
>> really that good or could I use a deep cycle Oddesy or Exide Maxximma
>> Deep Cycle with just as good results / reliability and save a bit more
>> cash?
>
>The others are pretty much as good and I believe they have 2 year warrenties
>on them compared to optimas
>
>Rich
>
>

> >I got the national luna from south africa for about 80 quid
>
> Did you buy off the national luna website or ring them up in SA? What
> about customs / taxes etc etc? Is it just a case of giving them your
> visa details and waiting for the courier man? I like the sound of
> buying direct and saving cash!

Tucked it under my arm and wandered thru airport security with a box of
electronics and wires, didn't get stoppped until switzerland who still let
me through with it.

Try the safari centre in cape town as they have shipped stuff direct to the
UK (including roof tents !)

Rich

Jon wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I need to put a split charge system into my 90 (1992 200Tdi). I know
> I could take the Barney Bodge-It approach and buy a 40A relay and
> switch and wire it up manually but I want a fit it and forget it type
> approach.

You could do what I've done - get the 40A relay and feed the coil on it from
the sensor wire on the alternator - the relay will only activate under the
same conditions as the charge warning light going out.

Seems to work pretty well really.

P.

--
The email address above is real.

http://www.geekstuff.tv/Landies/

I'm sure Halfords sell a split charge kit.....not very expensive either.
--
Wolverine
Big Red '93 110 CSW

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 13:29:59 +0100, Jon
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Also, when it comes to leisure batteries are the Optima's (yellow top)
>really that good

Yes.

>or could I use a deep cycle Oddesy or Exide Maxximma
>Deep Cycle with just as good results / reliability and save a bit more
>cash?

Exide are made by Optima and are just as good IMO. I will probably
replace my 3 Yellow Top Optimas with tham when they die (I've had a
good 4+ years from them - with some rather serious abuse, and they
show no sign of losing their charge or reliability yet, though).


--
Some Land Roveresque (101 biased), links available
from: http://links.solis.co.uk/Geek/X4_Land_Rover/
I also have a little Land Rover site biased toward
my beloved 101 "Grumble", at: http://www.101fc.net


Reading this in 'alt.fan.landrover'? Did you know
there's a group FAQ: http://www.aflfaq.dyndns.info

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 16:58:50 +0100, "Rich Clafton" <rclafton at
lineone.net> wrote:

>Try the safari centre in cape town as they have shipped stuff direct to the
>UK (including roof tents !)

Ask them to send it plain wrapped, marked as a gift then send the
receipt by letter. You could then try to avoid the duty/tax.

I did not say this, by the way, and have no knowledge of the person
currently using my 'puter... honest...

ang on a mo, there's a knock at the door, coupla suited blokes...

Won't be a mo...

erm...

Paul S. Brown wrote:

>You could do what I've done - get the 40A relay and feed the coil on it from
>the sensor wire on the alternator - the relay will only activate under the
>same conditions as the charge warning light going out.
>
>Seems to work pretty well really.
>
>P.
>
>
>

Friend has the same system to charge the batteries for lighting and
water pumping on his narrow boat. Seems to work fine.

Richard

Try Towsure (caravan camping specialist) in Sheffield or a local motor
factors. My local Romac store does a caravan split charging system for less
than £25 if I remember rightly.

Stew.
--

1990 LR ninety (Jasmine) with bits on!
2002 Freelander Td4 ES (wifes)


"Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi all,
>
> I need to put a split charge system into my 90 (1992 200Tdi). I know
> I could take the Barney Bodge-It approach and buy a 40A relay and
> switch and wire it up manually but I want a fit it and forget it type
> approach.
>
> Froggs Island suggested either a National Luna Battery Management
> system (£170 ish) or a split charge diode pack (£60 ish) (its red and
> was shown in LRO mag a couple of months ago).
>
> Scorpion Racing also suggested the same red diode pack thing
> (http://scorpionracing.co.uk) under performace/electrical section.
>
> Question is which is best? The national Luna is more than twice the
> price and all i can see it gives you is a visual representation of
> battery status and a switch to link both batteries in parallel when
> winching.
>
> I dont have a winch so all I would get is a few LED's to look at and a
> system that doesnt use any power (??). However, i have read that the
> diode pack's take about 1 volt to run and thus the leisure battery is
> never fully charged...
>
> So, is this a problem for running things like laptops, battery
> chargers, fridges, lights, etc etc? if not then i'll save my money
> ang get the cheaper solutuion!
>
>
> Also, when it comes to leisure batteries are the Optima's (yellow top)
> really that good or could I use a deep cycle Oddesy or Exide Maxximma
> Deep Cycle with just as good results / reliability and save a bit more
> cash?
>
> Thanks
> Jon

Found this website whilst looking for something else.

This should take you straight to the split charger page
http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.co.uk/VWPweb2000/towing/towing.html


Nigel
--
Lightweight 1979
nigelATleginDOTorg
Google first
ask later

Then I got bored and googled some and found:

Lead Acid Battery Split Charge Module for £7.99 from
http://www.maplin.co.uk

Nigel

--
Lightweight 1979
nigelATleginDOTorg
Google first
ask later

Funny, I looked at this yesterday in the maplin catalogue whilst I was
supoposed to be designing some briudge foundations (funny how landy's
take over your life!).

Anyway, the description in the catalogue reads:
"bla bla bla... The charging current is distributed in such a manner
that a discharged battery is charged more intensively than a battery
which is almost charged. ...bla bla bla"

As I understand it the split charge system should "ideally" charge
only the starter battrery and then drop over to the leisure battery
when the voltage of the starter battery is at 13.2V. The maplin
systems would seem to charge both at once but at different
intensities? Also, I wonder how much power this system uses to run?

Has anyone got one of these installed and could comment on it?

Jon

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:56:44 GMT, "Nigel"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Then I got bored and googled some and found:
>
>Lead Acid Battery Split Charge Module for £7.99 from
>http://www.maplin.co.uk
>
>Nigel

In article <[email protected]>, Nigel wrote:
> Then I got bored and googled some and found:
>
> Lead Acid Battery Split Charge Module for £7.99 from
> http://www.maplin.co.uk
>
> Nigel
>

I've just bought one of these as I intend to fit a second battery to my 110
at some point. Just recently one of these modules went for £25 on ebay and
there is another one up at the moment, people just don't check prices out
before they buy do they.

Now I've got the module and have had a chance to check it out I suspect it
may be just two schottky diodes potted in a plastic box with attached wires.
It certainly measures that way with voltage drop of under 0.1V between the
+ in and each of the alternator outs. Not sure how much schotkkys cost but
it may be cheaper to just buy the diodes ad make it.

--
simon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk
Simon Barr.
'97 110 300Tdi.

Simon Barr wrote:

> Now I've got the module and have had a chance to check it out I suspect it
> may be just two schottky diodes potted in a plastic box with attached wires.
> It certainly measures that way with voltage drop of under 0.1V between the
> + in and each of the alternator outs.

0.1 V sounds very very low for a schottky. What bias current were you
using ?

Sounds more like a little relay to me !

Steve

Hi Jon,

I get the imprestion you are not into electrics, you don't need to go for
the expencive type, just use a 40A relay and that will cost you about £2
ish, if
you send me a email I will send you a attatchment of a circuit of a split
relay system. [email protected]


The theory about batterys, a battery will only charge if it requires it, ie
if the battery is fully charged it take any current but if the battery is
down it will take
current, so the lower the state of the battery the more the current !so if
both batterys are down they will both get a charge.

Hope that makes sense, but these people like to make money and it only
requires the simple one !

Steve

"Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi all,
>
> I need to put a split charge system into my 90 (1992 200Tdi). I know
> I could take the Barney Bodge-It approach and buy a 40A relay and
> switch and wire it up manually but I want a fit it and forget it type
> approach.
>
> Froggs Island suggested either a National Luna Battery Management
> system (£170 ish) or a split charge diode pack (£60 ish) (its red and
> was shown in LRO mag a couple of months ago).
>
> Scorpion Racing also suggested the same red diode pack thing
> (http://scorpionracing.co.uk) under performace/electrical section.
>
> Question is which is best? The national Luna is more than twice the
> price and all i can see it gives you is a visual representation of
> battery status and a switch to link both batteries in parallel when
> winching.
>
> I dont have a winch so all I would get is a few LED's to look at and a
> system that doesnt use any power (??). However, i have read that the
> diode pack's take about 1 volt to run and thus the leisure battery is
> never fully charged...
>
> So, is this a problem for running things like laptops, battery
> chargers, fridges, lights, etc etc? if not then i'll save my money
> ang get the cheaper solutuion!
>
>
> Also, when it comes to leisure batteries are the Optima's (yellow top)
> really that good or could I use a deep cycle Oddesy or Exide Maxximma
> Deep Cycle with just as good results / reliability and save a bit more
> cash?
>
> Thanks
> Jon

RADIOTWO wrote:

> The theory about batterys, a battery will only charge if it requires it, ie
> if the battery is fully charged it take any current but if the battery is
> down it will take
> current, so the lower the state of the battery the more the current !so if
> both batterys are down they will both get a charge.

Except you must limit the charging current, if the battery is demanding
too much for its own good.

Steve

"Steve Taylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> RADIOTWO wrote:
>
> > The theory about batterys, a battery will only charge if it requires it,
ie
> > if the battery is fully charged it take any current but if the battery
is
> > down it will take
> > current, so the lower the state of the battery the more the current !so
if
> > both batterys are down they will both get a charge.
>
> Except you must limit the charging current, if the battery is demanding
> too much for its own good.
>
> Steve

There is no need to limit the current, The alternater will limit that !

Steve

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 18:12:42 GMT, "RADIOTWO"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>just use a 40A relay and that will cost you about £2 ish

If you have an 85A alternator?

I use a 120A relay, seems fine - still only cost a couplaquid.


--
Some Land Roveresque (101 biased), links available
from: http://links.solis.co.uk/Geek/X4_Land_Rover/
I also have a little Land Rover site biased toward
my beloved 101 "Grumble", at: http://www.101fc.net


Reading this in 'alt.fan.landrover'? Did you know
there's a group FAQ: http://www.aflfaq.dyndns.info

In article <[email protected]>, Steve Taylor wrote:
> Simon Barr wrote:
>
>> Now I've got the module and have had a chance to check it out I suspect it
>> may be just two schottky diodes potted in a plastic box with attached wires.
>> It certainly measures that way with voltage drop of under 0.1V between the
>> + in and each of the alternator outs.
>
> 0.1 V sounds very very low for a schottky. What bias current were you
> using ?
>
> Sounds more like a little relay to me !
>
> Steve
>

ISTR that schotkkys vary from about 1V downwards depending on the current
and the model of diode itself. I was using a fluke 77 on the diode test
setting. I'm a bit (very!) rusty on my electronics and was hoping to dig
out my copy of the art of electronics at the weekend to refresh my mind
but it didn't happen.

--
simon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk
Simon Barr.
'97 110 300Tdi.