Series 2a rebuild

1966-7 series 2a 88" +ve earth historic tax status


I'm seriously costing the whole project now. I'm planning to take it off the
road in mid July and take perhaps 6 months over the rebuild. My MOT place
has hinted it can't consider allowing the chassis through another test after
this one because of so many parts being welds on welds on welds.

The whole thing hangs on some advice from an expert or two here. I want to
retain the spec as close to early 2a as possible but with galvanised
everything. I might consider a polarity swap and alternator conversion but
don't really see the point. I hardly ever use the machine at night and
rarely work in the wet with it.

I have located and bought a repaired 2a bulkhead which I intend to have
galvanised. Any advice about warping here? Worth making a frame around it to
hold it in place? Anyone with experience of doing this? The original front
panel will also be galvanised if possible.

I suspect this is an old chestnut but all experience and advice taken on
board. Marsland or Richards for the chassis??? Marsland appear perfectly ok
and cheaper to me but lots of people say the Richards is well made and
authentic. Marsland claim their series 3 fits all 2a s as well but Richards
makes a chassis specific to the suffix C vehicle I have. Also people seem to
say that the Richards chassis has all the various holes reamed and prepared
in all the right places. Also, does the new chassis always come with the
lugs on the rear crossmember for a tailgate. My original chassis doesn't
have them but when I look at others they seem to be made new on the original
chassis.

I'm staying with leaf springs (not parabolic) and will be getting
replacements all round. I have a friend who has a powder coating business.
Would it be worth considering having them powder coated? Is there enough
flexibility in the coating to prevent cracking or am I wasting my time. It's
just an idea.

Other jobs to be done while it's in bits are renovation of the steering box,
rebuilding the leaking Weber and replacing the gearbox oil seal.

The machine has done 70000 miles from new, I have almost all the
documentation, and the engine is pretty good. I only do 2,000 miles a year
and it's a working Rover. It pulls rollers and gang mowers and acts as a
short haul 7 seater for my kids and their friends in emergency. I replaced
the clutch about 18 months ago. The box is crunchy in 2nd but I grew up dd
clutching on a moggy thou so that doesn't bother me at present.

Anyone interested in offering an account to make parts ordering more
straightforward?? Beamends??

All help and advice taken and gratefully received. Virtual coffee and
biscuits in return!!

Eddy

"The box is crunchy in 2nd but I grew up dd clutching on a moggy thou so
that doesn't bother me at present."

Hi Eddy

Just a thought, but that doesn't mean the box is bad. S2a of that age never
had synchro on 1st and 2nd.

John

"John Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "The box is crunchy in 2nd but I grew up dd clutching on a moggy thou so
> that doesn't bother me at present."
>
> Hi Eddy
>
> Just a thought, but that doesn't mean the box is bad. S2a of that age
never
> had synchro on 1st and 2nd.
>
> John
>
>

no, well aware of this. the 1st gear no syncro is fine but as usual the 2nd
gear is crunchy because of the number of years people have been crash boxing
from 3rd to 2nd. it doesn't jump out yet and probably has another 30 years
in it if ddclutched properly. i tend to start in 2nd anyway and rarely use
the gear after that. 3rd does fine for most purposes until I stop. thanks
for this anyway.

Eddy Bayton wrote:

> I'm seriously costing the whole project now. I'm planning to take it off the

x2 x3 whatever figure you came to!

> road in mid July and take perhaps 6 months over the rebuild. My MOT place
> has hinted it can't consider allowing the chassis through another test after
> this one because of so many parts being welds on welds on welds.

Obviously didn't put enough fresh underseal on it ;-)

> I have located and bought a repaired 2a bulkhead which I intend to have
> galvanised. Any advice about warping here? Worth making a frame around it to
> hold it in place? Anyone with experience of doing this? The original front
> panel will also be galvanised if possible.

Mmm, galv bulkheads - depends on who does it! I think a lot of the
warped ones are done by galv operators lacking in skill. Get a
reputable firm to do it, ideally one who have done them before. We had
a 110 bulkhead done by Highland Galvanisers and they did a good job.
No frame involved. Will be having them do a IIa bulkhead in a month or
two.

> I suspect this is an old chestnut but all experience and advice taken on
> board. Marsland or Richards for the chassis??? Marsland appear perfectly ok
> and cheaper to me but lots of people say the Richards is well made and
> authentic. Marsland claim their series 3 fits all 2a s as well but Richards
> makes a chassis specific to the suffix C vehicle I have. Also people seem to
> say that the Richards chassis has all the various holes reamed and prepared
> in all the right places. Also, does the new chassis always come with the
> lugs on the rear crossmember for a tailgate. My original chassis doesn't
> have them but when I look at others they seem to be made new on the original
> chassis.

Again, Richards chassis make excellent chassis year specific, and in
our 110 case it was beatifully finished and everything lined up
perfectly. On the other hand I spent last Saturday getting one of
these "generic" LR series chassis from Strathearn Engineering, near
Perth (they make them for Britpart) as it was quite a bit cheaper than
Richards and we could get it easily and quickly. Finish isn't as good,
but it does look like the holes have been reamed out, don't think it
has lugs for a tailgate but then we use a side hinged one instead.
Does have a funny hole at the back that we haven't worked out what it
is for yet...

> I'm staying with leaf springs (not parabolic) and will be getting
> replacements all round. I have a friend who has a powder coating business.
> Would it be worth considering having them powder coated? Is there enough
> flexibility in the coating to prevent cracking or am I wasting my time. It's
> just an idea.

Not seen that before.

> Other jobs to be done while it's in bits are renovation of the steering box,
> rebuilding the leaking Weber and replacing the gearbox oil seal.

Look on the gearbox seal as a rust preventative chassis lubrication
device

> The machine has done 70000 miles from new, I have almost all the
> documentation, and the engine is pretty good. I only do 2,000 miles a year
> and it's a working Rover. It pulls rollers and gang mowers and acts as a

I'm a little jealous of the gang mowers...

> short haul 7 seater for my kids and their friends in emergency. I replaced
> the clutch about 18 months ago. The box is crunchy in 2nd but I grew up dd
> clutching on a moggy thou so that doesn't bother me at present.
>
> All help and advice taken and gratefully received. Virtual coffee and
> biscuits in return!!

Not really help but some of my brothers and I are doing the same on a
1970 11a over the next few months. Estimates vary from 3 months to 1
year for completion!

Regards

William MacLeod

Eddy Bayton wrote:

> 1966-7 series 2a 88" +ve earth historic tax status
>
>
> I'm seriously costing the whole project now. I'm planning to take it off
> the road in mid July and take perhaps 6 months over the rebuild. My MOT
> place has hinted it can't consider allowing the chassis through another
> test after this one because of so many parts being welds on welds on
> welds.
>
> The whole thing hangs on some advice from an expert or two here. I want to
> retain the spec as close to early 2a as possible but with galvanised
> everything. I might consider a polarity swap and alternator conversion but
> don't really see the point. I hardly ever use the machine at night and
> rarely work in the wet with it.

In my view the main reason for changing the dynamo for an alternator is
reliability. The dynamos tend to have a very short life, although this may
be better in a non-dusty environment. I would at least be inclined to
replace the bush at the end with a bearing, as this is what fails. Polarity
change is a different matter, and simply needed if you want to run any
modern electronic equipment.

>
> I have located and bought a repaired 2a bulkhead which I intend to have
> galvanised. Any advice about warping here? Worth making a frame around it
> to hold it in place? Anyone with experience of doing this? The original
> front panel will also be galvanised if possible.

Whether the bulkhead warps with galvanising will depend probably on the
residual stresses in it, more likely on a repaired one, but luck of the
draw even so. But I would think that you would be able to pull it into
shape afterwards as they are pretty floppy anyway until installed. Should
be no problem galvanising the front panel if it is in reasonable shape.

>
> I suspect this is an old chestnut but all experience and advice taken on
> board. Marsland or Richards for the chassis??? Marsland appear perfectly
> ok and cheaper to me but lots of people say the Richards is well made and
> authentic. Marsland claim their series 3 fits all 2a s as well but
> Richards makes a chassis specific to the suffix C vehicle I have. Also
> people seem to say that the Richards chassis has all the various holes
> reamed and prepared in all the right places. Also, does the new chassis
> always come with the lugs on the rear crossmember for a tailgate. My
> original chassis doesn't have them but when I look at others they seem to
> be made new on the original chassis.
>
> I'm staying with leaf springs (not parabolic) and will be getting
> replacements all round. I have a friend who has a powder coating business.
> Would it be worth considering having them powder coated? Is there enough
> flexibility in the coating to prevent cracking or am I wasting my time.
> It's just an idea.

The problem will be that the powder coating will rapidly wear off the
surfaces touching - which is what you really want to protect to stop rust.
But if the vehicle does low mileage it might be worthwhile. The springs
would need to be disassembled and done as individual leaves for it to be
worthwhile. I would not worry about the powder coating being flexible
enough - I am sure it is, the springs don't bend that much.
>
> Other jobs to be done while it's in bits are renovation of the steering
> box, rebuilding the leaking Weber and replacing the gearbox oil seal.
>
> The machine has done 70000 miles from new, I have almost all the
> documentation, and the engine is pretty good. I only do 2,000 miles a year
> and it's a working Rover. It pulls rollers and gang mowers and acts as a
> short haul 7 seater for my kids and their friends in emergency. I replaced
> the clutch about 18 months ago. The box is crunchy in 2nd but I grew up dd
> clutching on a moggy thou so that doesn't bother me at present.

The box would have been crunchy in second from new. While it has constant
mesh on second it does not have synchromesh. But the constant mesh
arrangement will take an awful lot of mashing without problems as there are
a number of teeth engaging at once.

>
> Anyone interested in offering an account to make parts ordering more
> straightforward?? Beamends??
>
> All help and advice taken and gratefully received. Virtual coffee and
> biscuits in return!!
>
> Eddy

Thanks everybody so far. please keep the thread running. I'll be sorting out
a chassis from Richards asap next week. comments on budget are well founded,
I'm working on a hard earned 2k budget! Willie MacLeod, fancy a double
galvanising in July or can you advise further. what are your costings?

thanks all

Eddy

Eddy Bayton wrote:
> Thanks everybody so far. please keep the thread running. I'll be
> sorting out a chassis from Richards asap next week. comments on
> budget are well founded, I'm working on a hard earned 2k budget!
> Willie MacLeod, fancy a double galvanising in July or can you advise
> further. what are your costings?
>
> thanks all
>
> Eddy

I'd really advise strongly against seriously costing a renovation - it'll
never be accurate as you don't know what you're in for till it's done, and
if you realise half of the cost you are up for you'd never start the
project.

Just accept it's a labour of love, an act of insanity, and enjoy it

Karen

--
"I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
- Slartibartfast

Eddy Bayton wrote:

> I'm working on a hard earned 2k budget! Willie MacLeod, fancy a double
> galvanising in July or can you advise further. what are your costings?

Whereabouts are you? If you're not in the Highlands then the cost of
shipping will outweigh the cost of galv. Ours is being done on a
similar (or less budget) as this is to be a hard working vehicle so no
concours restoration here, we just want a long lasting functional
vehicle.

Costings so far are:

chassis 620 (ours does have the tailgate brackets you mentioned
earlier)
stainless + high tensile nuts/bolts/washers 100
welding wire+gas+grinder disks 50
steel 20
alloy 20
wire+connectors+relays+fuses 100
brake bits 100
exhaust bits 40
shocks 45
paint+prep 80
door+door tops 150
carb rebuild 40
fuel tank 55
various hoses+belts 50
blast + galv 200

+ lots of other little (and no doubt bigger) bits as well! But our
costs are going to be skewed as we can salvage some parts from local
wrecks and we have quite a lot of bits like brake line and so on lying
around and don't need to hire tools, will rebuild the bulkhead
ourselves etc. As far as galv prices go, last time we had

all rear tub cappings
dixon bate adjustable tow hitch + brackets
bulkhead
rear door frame
station wagon side frames
bumper
+ other assorted brakets or plates I can't recall now

and it came to under 200 for everything blasted + galved. Though they
really wouldn't give much of an idea of how much it would be for a
start, we only found that out when we went to pick it up, they charge
by weight difference. HTH

Regards

William MacLeod

[email protected] wrote:

> Eddy Bayton wrote:
>
>> I'm working on a hard earned 2k budget! Willie MacLeod, fancy a double
>> galvanising in July or can you advise further. what are your costings?
>
> Whereabouts are you? If you're not in the Highlands then the cost of
> shipping will outweigh the cost of galv. Ours is being done on a
> similar (or less budget) as this is to be a hard working vehicle so no
> concours restoration here, we just want a long lasting functional
> vehicle.
>
> Costings so far are:
>
> chassis 620 (ours does have the tailgate brackets you mentioned
> earlier)
> stainless + high tensile nuts/bolts/washers 100
> welding wire+gas+grinder disks 50
> steel 20
> alloy 20
> wire+connectors+relays+fuses 100
> brake bits 100
> exhaust bits 40
> shocks 45
> paint+prep 80
> door+door tops 150
> carb rebuild 40
> fuel tank 55
> various hoses+belts 50
> blast + galv 200
>
> + lots of other little (and no doubt bigger) bits as well! But our
> costs are going to be skewed as we can salvage some parts from local
> wrecks and we have quite a lot of bits like brake line and so on lying
> around and don't need to hire tools, will rebuild the bulkhead
> ourselves etc. As far as galv prices go, last time we had
>
> all rear tub cappings
> dixon bate adjustable tow hitch + brackets
> bulkhead
> rear door frame
> station wagon side frames
> bumper
> + other assorted brakets or plates I can't recall now
>
> and it came to under 200 for everything blasted + galved. Though they
> really wouldn't give much of an idea of how much it would be for a
> start, we only found that out when we went to pick it up, they charge
> by weight difference. HTH
>
> Regards
>
> William MacLeod

Just a warning to both of you - a couple of years ago I repainted my 2a,
including complete removal and disassembly of the body so I could paint the
chassis properly. The biggest single cost of the job was rubber! Door
seals, window seals, windscreen top and bottom, bailey channel, dozens of
plugs, plus I used adhesive neoprene foam tape to seal between panels. The
prices of individual bits doesn't seem much, but they added up to many
hundreds of dollars!
JD

JD wrote:

> Just a warning to both of you - a couple of years ago I repainted my 2a,
> including complete removal and disassembly of the body so I could paint the
> chassis properly. The biggest single cost of the job was rubber! Door
> seals, window seals, windscreen top and bottom, bailey channel, dozens of
> plugs, plus I used adhesive neoprene foam tape to seal between panels. The
> prices of individual bits doesn't seem much, but they added up to many
> hundreds of dollars!

Good point JD, we were talking about this the other day, vehicle was
fitted with new channels not that long ago but already they are looking
past their best! Thinking about trying some plastic channel for the
front doors, it already has defender door seals.

Regards

William MacLeod

On or around Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:43:34 +1000, "Karen Gallagher"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Eddy Bayton wrote:
>> Thanks everybody so far. please keep the thread running. I'll be
>> sorting out a chassis from Richards asap next week. comments on
>> budget are well founded, I'm working on a hard earned 2k budget!
>> Willie MacLeod, fancy a double galvanising in July or can you advise
>> further. what are your costings?
>>
>> thanks all
>>
>> Eddy
>
>I'd really advise strongly against seriously costing a renovation - it'll
>never be accurate as you don't know what you're in for till it's done, and
>if you realise half of the cost you are up for you'd never start the
>project.

Besides which, It'll inevitably end up going 'way over budget.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
In Touch: Get in touch with yourself by touching yourself.
If somebody is watching, stop touching yourself.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

On or around 24 Mar 2006 12:05:24 -0800, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>JD wrote:
>
>> Just a warning to both of you - a couple of years ago I repainted my 2a,
>> including complete removal and disassembly of the body so I could paint the
>> chassis properly. The biggest single cost of the job was rubber! Door
>> seals, window seals, windscreen top and bottom, bailey channel, dozens of
>> plugs, plus I used adhesive neoprene foam tape to seal between panels. The
>> prices of individual bits doesn't seem much, but they added up to many
>> hundreds of dollars!
>
>Good point JD, we were talking about this the other day, vehicle was
>fitted with new channels not that long ago but already they are looking
>past their best! Thinking about trying some plastic channel for the
>front doors, it already has defender door seals.

good tip from someone, I forget who, about door seals: if you cut off the
lip at the edge of the bit that the rubber seals fit onto, you can fit seals
from e.g. a Ford Sierra instead.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
In Touch: Get in touch with yourself by touching yourself.
If somebody is watching, stop touching yourself.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

the series 2a gearbox will allways crunch in 2nd , 1st and 2nd gear is
not synchro .
usually its the 3rd gear synchro that goes in these boxes .
best way to change gear is very quickly after using 1st gear and not
with any speed .

if buying a new chassis some garages can get iffy now with the new MOT
if the chassis doesnt carry the original number according to the DVLA
and V5C .

i dont know if you can have youre original chassis number stamped into
the new chassis before galvanising but it may be an idea to ask company
to do this for you before they galv it , or you could cut out youre
original number from youre chassis and have it welded into a new one
before galvanising , then at least you have part of the old chassis on
the vehicle .

in essence fitting a new chassis and body panels would render the
vehicle as not being original , in effect a NEW vehicle .

i know people get away with all these cut and shut things but each year
the dvlc clamp down on it more and more and of course landrovers are
some of the vehicles that get new bodies put on old chassis and vice
versa, or so say they do .

it would be better to have original chassis number stamped onto new
chassis, in same place , and then galvanised , then this would probably
satisfy any future MOT inspections and not pose problems for you .

after all if you have old badly corroded chassis you could take photos
of it for reference , then because it is so badly corroded you repair
almost all of it with new materials and get it galvanised at same time
..

in theory you should retain the original part of chassis with number on
, on the repaired chassis to enable you to claim it is somewhere near
to being the original vehicle and not a new vehicle parading as an old
one .

it doesnt bother me what anyone wants to do but forethought is a
wonderfull thing isnt it ?.

On 25 Mar, in article
<[email protected]>
[email protected] "m0bcg" wrote:

> the series 2a gearbox will allways crunch in 2nd , 1st and 2nd gear is
> not synchro .
> usually its the 3rd gear synchro that goes in these boxes .
> best way to change gear is very quickly after using 1st gear and not
> with any speed .
>
> if buying a new chassis some garages can get iffy now with the new MOT
> if the chassis doesnt carry the original number according to the DVLA
> and V5C .
>
> i dont know if you can have youre original chassis number stamped into
> the new chassis before galvanising but it may be an idea to ask company
> to do this for you before they galv it , or you could cut out youre
> original number from youre chassis and have it welded into a new one
> before galvanising , then at least you have part of the old chassis on
> the vehicle .
>
> in essence fitting a new chassis and body panels would render the
> vehicle as not being original , in effect a NEW vehicle .
>
> i know people get away with all these cut and shut things but each year
> the dvlc clamp down on it more and more and of course landrovers are
> some of the vehicles that get new bodies put on old chassis and vice
> versa, or so say they do .
>
> it would be better to have original chassis number stamped onto new
> chassis, in same place , and then galvanised , then this would probably
> satisfy any future MOT inspections and not pose problems for you .
>
> after all if you have old badly corroded chassis you could take photos
> of it for reference , then because it is so badly corroded you repair
> almost all of it with new materials and get it galvanised at same time
> .
>
> in theory you should retain the original part of chassis with number on
> , on the repaired chassis to enable you to claim it is somewhere near
> to being the original vehicle and not a new vehicle parading as an old
> one .
>
> it doesnt bother me what anyone wants to do but forethought is a
> wonderfull thing isnt it ?.


Two things...

It's my understanding that the DVLA don't consider Land Rover bodywork
to be a significant part of the vehicle. You may be confused by later
unitary construction where it is.

Secondly, faking the chassis number is just asking for trouble.
Documenting the change is fine, but cutting the number from the old
chassis and welding it to the new just screams fraud.

--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six."