Pantelis,
I agree - it may not be a wise choice - but the same comment can often be
made about many choices made by car owners, probably the most obvious one
being the size of cars, let alone the question of urban four wheel drives,
so why single out bull bars? As an interesting sidelight on my previous
post, the news this morning includes the discovery of a broken down car in
Western Australia with the bodies of two men and their dog who had been
dead from thirst for some time. This breakdown was not, apparently, due to
animal damage, but from mechanical problems, but it does make the point.

Legislative action against bullbars should be seen in the same light as as,
for example, legislative action that requires all vehicles to be fitted
with drinking water tanks. I suspect that certainly in this country the
number of deaths from thirst after breakdowns would be similar to the
number of pedestrian deaths due to bullbars - and in both cases the numbers
are very small, with far more deaths being caused by other factors (but
bearing in mind every accident is caused by a whole chain of factors).

JD

Pantelis Giamarellos wrote:

> JD Hi,
>
> it is extremely nice to be able to drive in the open space and I am sure
> your bullbar really deserves its place in front of your car.
> But then again would it really be a wise choice to have it on a car that
> only sees open space and 'roos in its dreams?
>
> Take care
> Pantelis
>
> "JD" <jjd@SPAMLESS.com.au> wrote in message
> news:425a68ca@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>> Depends on the circumstances. In this area bullbars are regarded as
>> almost essential even on vehicles driven 100% on the road. They change
>> the damage from hitting a kangaroo from disabling in many cases to damage
>> that leaves the vehicle still driveable, and if we are talking about the
>> traditional Landrover design, damage is usually nonexistent, where
>> without the bullbar at the minimum you have hundreds to thousands of
>> dollars worth of panel damage, probably one or more damaged lights, and
>> very likely crippling damage to the radiator, which on some very lightly
>> travelled roads could
> be
>> life threatening.
>> Having said this, many modern vehicles simply do not have any structure
> that
>> it is practical to attach the bullbar to, which is probably one reason
>> why the majority of vehicles outside of town here are large four wheel
>> drives or utilities.
>> JD
>>
>> Pantelis Giamarellos wrote:
>>
>> > Nige Hi,
>> >
>> > I totally agree with your on bullbars being both un-necessary and
>> > dangerous on vehicles that are used mainly on the road or for slight or
>> > medium off roading use.
>> > This is why I have removed it (along with the roofrack) from one of my
> two
>> > camels. The other one is being kept at 100% original state (down to its
>> > event battle scars) as a future classic vehicle.
>> >
>> > To get back to your point about bullbars I can also add that a chassis
>> > mounted bullbar will definately cause more damage to the vehicle it is
>> > mounted on in case on an accident since the chassis can get more easily
>> > bent and also bullbars tend to spread damage in a larger bodyshell area
>> > while vehicles without bullbars tend to have accident damage focused
> only
>> > in the "contact" area.
>> >
>> > They also signicicantly alter the way the vehicle handles because they
> add
>> > so much weight in front of the front axle.
>> >
>> > Take care
>> > Pantelis
>> >
>> > "Nige" <nigel.inceFANNYFART@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>> > news:3bt1q4F6m283sU1@individual.net...
>> >> Eddie Green wrote:
>> >> > Can someone tell me the present law regarding Bull Bars, A Frames,
>> >> > etc. Are they permitted on new vehicles? to be fitted to existing
>> >> > vehicles ? and what about in France, is there any legislation there.
>> >> > Thanks.
>> >> > Eddie Green.
>> >>
>> >> Why do you want bullbars anyhow mate?
>> >>
>> >> I really cant see what purpose they serve for normal road driving.
>> >> They
>> > can make any accident damage a
>> >> fair bit worse & are not exactly good if you hit a pedestrian. I can
> see
>> > why they could be useful for off
>> >> road driving.
>> >>
>> >> Anyone got any commenst about bullbars & have i missed the point etc?
>> >>
>> >> Nige
>> >>
>> >> --�
>> >> Subaru WRX (The Bitch)
>> >>
>> >> Series 3 Landrover 88" (Albert)
>> >>
>> >> '"They called him Jimmy the gent"
>> >>
>> >>
>>

According to my insurance company the law is should your insurance company
allow them great, otherwise no. I asked at my local LR specialist who agreed
with this and therefore installed one on my 94 disco. Before you say he was
just selling, he actually told me to check with the insurance company first!

"MVP" <mr.nice@*nospam*softhome.net> wrote in message
news:9v0i51hagf7u69fgu941tebs2rv0l396o8@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 07:31:20 +0000 (UTC), "Eddie Green"
> <ed.green@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>>Can someone tell me the present law regarding Bull Bars, A Frames, etc.
>>Are
>>they permitted on new vehicles? to be fitted to existing vehicles ? and
>>what
>>about in France, is there any legislation there.
>>Thanks.
>>Eddie Green.
>>
>
> I've seen them fitted on new land rovers (defenders), proper ones too
> not those plastic ones, so they must be legal, I don't know if you
> have to prove some kind of need or not but as both are freely
> available from many accessories dealers I can only assume that people
> are buying them therefor they are legal and proper.
>
> I'm sure someone who knows what they are talking about will be along
> promptly, and if someone can quote some legislation etc then I'll make
> a page for it on my website as it's worth info in my view.
>
>
> Regards.
> Mark.
> --
> _________________________________________
> 1984 110 CSW 2.5(na)D
> (3,000 rivets flying in close formation)
> www.4x4info.info
> www.mvp-fine-art.co.uk
> www.markvarleyphoto.co.uk
> charity calendar project -
> http://www.4x4info.info/calendar/
> _________________________________________
>
>
>
> .................................................. ..............
> Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access
> >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<<
> -=Every Newsgroup - Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-
>

My local LR garage told me to check with my insurance company, if they say
it is ok then it is ok. So simply ask your insurance company.

"MVP" <mr.nice@*nospam*softhome.net> wrote in message
news:9v0i51hagf7u69fgu941tebs2rv0l396o8@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 07:31:20 +0000 (UTC), "Eddie Green"
> <ed.green@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>>Can someone tell me the present law regarding Bull Bars, A Frames, etc.
>>Are
>>they permitted on new vehicles? to be fitted to existing vehicles ? and
>>what
>>about in France, is there any legislation there.
>>Thanks.
>>Eddie Green.
>>
>
> I've seen them fitted on new land rovers (defenders), proper ones too
> not those plastic ones, so they must be legal, I don't know if you
> have to prove some kind of need or not but as both are freely
> available from many accessories dealers I can only assume that people
> are buying them therefor they are legal and proper.
>
> I'm sure someone who knows what they are talking about will be along
> promptly, and if someone can quote some legislation etc then I'll make
> a page for it on my website as it's worth info in my view.
>
>
> Regards.
> Mark.
> --
> _________________________________________
> 1984 110 CSW 2.5(na)D
> (3,000 rivets flying in close formation)
> www.4x4info.info
> www.mvp-fine-art.co.uk
> www.markvarleyphoto.co.uk
> charity calendar project -
> http://www.4x4info.info/calendar/
> _________________________________________
>
>
>
> .................................................. ..............
> Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access
> >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<<
> -=Every Newsgroup - Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-
>

test

"MVP" <mr.nice@*nospam*softhome.net> wrote in message
news:9v0i51hagf7u69fgu941tebs2rv0l396o8@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 07:31:20 +0000 (UTC), "Eddie Green"
> <ed.green@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>>Can someone tell me the present law regarding Bull Bars, A Frames, etc.
>>Are
>>they permitted on new vehicles? to be fitted to existing vehicles ? and
>>what
>>about in France, is there any legislation there.
>>Thanks.
>>Eddie Green.
>>
>
> I've seen them fitted on new land rovers (defenders), proper ones too
> not those plastic ones, so they must be legal, I don't know if you
> have to prove some kind of need or not but as both are freely
> available from many accessories dealers I can only assume that people
> are buying them therefor they are legal and proper.
>
> I'm sure someone who knows what they are talking about will be along
> promptly, and if someone can quote some legislation etc then I'll make
> a page for it on my website as it's worth info in my view.
>
>
> Regards.
> Mark.
> --
> _________________________________________
> 1984 110 CSW 2.5(na)D
> (3,000 rivets flying in close formation)
> www.4x4info.info
> www.mvp-fine-art.co.uk
> www.markvarleyphoto.co.uk
> charity calendar project -
> http://www.4x4info.info/calendar/
> _________________________________________
>
>
>
> .................................................. ..............
> Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access
> >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<<
> -=Every Newsgroup - Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-
>

Now should I stick my genny on the front as there is room what will the law
think, and have they really anything they can say here or to eternity ?

--
þT

L'autisme c'est moi

"Space folds, and folded space bends, and bent folded space contracts and
expands unevenly in every way unconcievable except to someone who does not
believe in the laws of mathematics"

"Eddie Green" <ed.green@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:d3ako8$hda$1@titan.btinternet.com...
> Can someone tell me the present law regarding Bull Bars, A Frames, etc.
Are
> they permitted on new vehicles? to be fitted to existing vehicles ? and
what
> about in France, is there any legislation there.
> Thanks.
> Eddie Green.
>
>

I am not pro bull bars but with a vintage landie I can't see em making a
haporth of difference on pedestrian impact and might even improve the
situation.

Like I said in my previos post I doubt if anyone would quibble if I fixed my
generator there or a winch, a landie is not a car it is a utility vehicle.


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes

"Nige" <nigel.inceFANNYFART@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:3bt1q4F6m283sU1@individual.net...
>
> Why do you want bullbars anyhow mate?
>
> I really cant see what purpose they serve for normal road driving. They
can make any accident damage a
> fair bit worse & are not exactly good if you hit a pedestrian. I can see
why they could be useful for off
> road driving.
>
> Anyone got any commenst about bullbars & have i missed the point etc?
>
> Nige
>
> --�
> Subaru WRX (The Bitch)
>
> Series 3 Landrover 88" (Albert)
>
> '"They called him Jimmy the gent"
>
>

Roofrack ???? roofrack

now how might that be a hazard other than at drive in McDonalds and Car
Washes?

I have wing mirrors on my landie, and they are potentially nasty, as much as
door mirrors might be.

Incedentally the only way a landie can be a classic is if it is heavily
modified in my opinion, they were never intended to be pickled in aspic.

--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes


"Pantelis Giamarellos" <pantg@otenet.gr> wrote in message
news:3bujpaF6eepb2U1@individual.net...
> Nige Hi,
>
> I totally agree with your on bullbars being both un-necessary and
dangerous
> on vehicles that are used mainly on the road or for slight or medium off
> roading use.
> This is why I have removed it (along with the roofrack) from one of my two
> camels. The other one is being kept at 100% original state (down to its
> event battle scars) as a future classic vehicle.
>
> To get back to your point about bullbars I can also add that a chassis
> mounted bullbar will definately cause more damage to the vehicle it is
> mounted on in case on an accident since the chassis can get more easily
bent
> and also bullbars tend to spread damage in a larger bodyshell area while
> vehicles without bullbars tend to have accident damage focused only in the
> "contact" area.
>
> They also signicicantly alter the way the vehicle handles because they add
> so much weight in front of the front axle.
>
> Take care
> Pantelis
>

My landie sees roos, I have one as a mascot on the dashboard :)


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes

"Pantelis Giamarellos" <pantg@otenet.gr> wrote in message
news:3c005aF6laj4hU1@individual.net...
> JD Hi,
>
> it is extremely nice to be able to drive in the open space and I am sure
> your bullbar really deserves its place in front of your car.
> But then again would it really be a wise choice to have it on a car that
> only sees open space and 'roos in its dreams?
>
> Take care
> Pantelis
>
> "JD" <jjd@SPAMLESS.com.au> wrote in message

In news:d3hbl6$ljr$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk,
Larry <NDA@larry-arnold.com> blithered:
> Now should I stick my genny on the front as there is room what will
> the law think, and have they really anything they can say here or to
> eternity ?
>
>
> "Eddie Green" <ed.green@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:d3ako8$hda$1@titan.btinternet.com...
>> Can someone tell me the present law regarding Bull Bars, A Frames,
>> etc. Are they permitted on new vehicles? to be fitted to existing
>> vehicles ? and what about in France, is there any legislation there.
>> Thanks.
>> Eddie Green.

Seem to recall you can put what you like on your vehicle with the provisos, it
must be adequately secured and not extend outside the footprint. ie the regular
plan view. Bull bars thus require approval, but winches (or generators) mounted as
part of or behind the front bumper do not.
ICBW!

--
"He who says it cannot be done should not interrupt him doing it."

If at first you don't succeed,
maybe skydiving's not for you!

The directive is not a 'blanket' covering all vehicle legilation for example, here in Spain my 200tdi discovery will fail the ITV (MOT) if I REMOVE the tow bar, this applies to any factory fitted option. I am in the process of having my vehicle modification approved by an engineer (600.00 euros), this will include such items as shock absorbers/bumpers/winch ect, then all mods are listed and added to a document called 'permision de circulacion'.

This document has to be carried in all Spanish cars 24/7, it enables the ITV staff and Police to check the vehicle conforms to certain standards whilst on the road. If I simply change a wheel or tyre size and do not gain approval I could face a fine. This applies even if it was a factory option.

You could go buy and fit the optional bigger tyres for example and then you have to have them approved and the details registered.

Hope that throws a cat in

regards

Dave

__________________
Remember as an individual you are unique........................ just like everyone else.