Waste Motor oil as fuel

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olesmokie

olesmokie

Member
Posts
89
Location
Somerset
[FONT=&quot]Hello all,
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]As the title suggests i want to talk about Waste Motor oil as fuel. I've read and reread the[/FONT][FONT=&quot] HMRC Reference:Notice 179e Biofuels and other fuel substitutes and also this which says.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]"Production of hydrocarbon (mineral) oils
If you produce hydrocarbon (mineral) oils in the UK, you must register your premises and plant with HMRC as an oil producer.
If you produce certain oils - generally those that are liable for Fuel Duty - you must also store these oils in premises that are approved by and registered with HMRC as an excise warehouse."

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]But the HMRC Reference Notice 179e. section 21 defines[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]"[/FONT][FONT=&quot]'Bioblend' means any mixture that is produced by mixing: [/FONT]

  • [FONT=&quot]biodiesel, and[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]heavy oil that has not been charged with the excise duty on hydrocarbon oil[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Biodiesel is described in the law as a diesel quality* liquid fuel that is produced from biomass or waste cooking oil:[/FONT]

  • [FONT=&quot]the ester content of which is not less than 96.5 per cent by weight, and[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]the sulphur content of which does not exceed 0.005 per cent by weight, or is nil[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]*diesel quality means that the fuel is a substitute for diesel rather than petrol."[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]2.2 Other fuel substitutes[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Any liquid that is not hydrocarbon oil, biodiesel, bioblend, bioethanol or bioethanol blend but is used in place of mineral oil to fuel any engine, motor or other machinery is classed as a fuel substitute. Please see paragraph 3.1.1 for further details. This includes:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]any liquid used as a fuel in place of mineral oil[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]any liquid which is used as an additive or extender to a mineral oil, or[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]any liquid which is used as an additive or extender in a fuel substitute[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]However, water is not considered to be a fuel substitute when used in a diesel emulsion when the emulsion is stabilised with additives. Duty is charged only on the non-water part of the fuel. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]It also says that...[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]4.2.1 Exempt producers/users
If you have produced or used less than 2,500 litres of:
any biofuel, or
any other fuel substitute or additive
within the last 12 months, and/or expect to produce or use less than 2,500 litres in the next 12 months, you are an exempt producer and do not need to register with us and account for duty. However, there are simple record keeping requirements, which are described in paragraph 4.9.1.
Production includes the manufacture or processing of road fuel, and the setting aside of any product that has not been charged with duty, with the intention of using it as road fuel.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]OK so does that mean this assumption is correct?.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]If i make bioblend ie mixing SVO or WVO with WMO and other additives to mae fuel, 2500l of this will be Tax free after that it will be liable to £0.579 tax per liter.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]But if i were to make fuel using WMO alone with other additives to make fuel I would have to register my premise as an oil producing plant and pay tax at £0.579 per liter.

Sorry of quoting loads and not really asking a question i just want to understand the tax implications before i spend any money on the kit needed to produce fuel.

Cheers for your readings.

Ole[/FONT]
 
I believe this subject has been discussed extensively on this forum but unfortunately I can't remember the title of the thread. I would suggest that a search would turn it up.
 
Yes i've seen loads on this forum. But i don't think any talk about the tax implications of using or producing WMO as fuel.
 
You need to look at tax requirements on Bioblend products because that is what you would be producing NOT Biodiesel.
 
So would it considered BioBlend even thou it would be a mix of probably Dino-Diesel, WMO and some other thinning agent?

Rather than Biodiesel as detailed below.

olesmokie said:
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]"[/FONT][FONT=&quot]'Bioblend' means any mixture that is produced by mixing: [/FONT]

  • [FONT=&quot]biodiesel, and[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]heavy oil that has not been charged with the excise duty on hydrocarbon oil[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Biodiesel is described in the law as a diesel quality* liquid fuel that is produced from biomass or waste cooking oil:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

Ole[/FONT]
Click to expand...
 
Datatek said:
Unless you are selling the stuff, why tell anyone how much you make?
Click to expand...

I'm not somuch bothered about how much i make. Rather if i can make it at all without paying tax. If plod does pull me over and does check what i've got in my tank, I don't really want my car taken off of me when i can't prove that I've registered my house as an oil producing plant....
 
olesmokie said:
I'm not somuch bothered about how much i make. Rather if i can make it at all without paying tax. If plod does pull me over and does check what i've got in my tank, I don't really want my car taken off of me when i can't prove that I've registered my house as an oil producing plant....
Click to expand...

As far as i can see from what you posted, any plant processing dino oil has to be registered, that would include as far as i can see using waste lubricating oil to make fuel. Any plant making Biodiesel from waste cooking oil doesn't.
 
olesmokie said:
I'm not somuch bothered about how much i make. Rather if i can make it at all without paying tax. If plod does pull me over and does check what i've got in my tank, I don't really want my car taken off of me when i can't prove that I've registered my house as an oil producing plant....
Click to expand...

If plod does pull you over,tell him you put your old engine oil in with a tank of fuel each time you service the car.And keep a coupe of recent diesel receipts in the car.I've never had my tank dipped in over 30years of diesel car ownership.Now if you are driving a old transit,belching smoke,and with a wardrobe on the roof,that's a different matter :D
 
i looked into this a few years ago and was told by hmrc that i would have to pay 54p per litre on the waste motor oil as it is a taxable commodity i argued that it had been taxed already but was told as it was being used as a fuel it was liable for tax again at the same rate as fuel duty which at the time was 54p per litre its up to you how much you declare you use but they can spot check you
 
rodntod said:
If plod does pull you over,tell him you put your old engine oil in with a tank of fuel each time you service the car.And keep a coupe of recent diesel receipts in the car.I've never had my tank dipped in over 30years of diesel car ownership.Now if you are driving a old transit,belching smoke,and with a wardrobe on the roof,that's a different matter :D
Click to expand...

Only time i have been dipped was in Scotland at the Wemyss bay ferry terminal. They failed, they could not get the pipe in the tank. Doing as you suggest would possibly get him arrested and his vehicle impounded. If you use engine oil as fuel you need to pay fuel tax on it.
 
wammers said:
As far as i can see from what you posted, any plant processing dino oil has to be registered, that would include as far as i can see using waste lubricating oil to make fuel. Any plant making Biodiesel from waste cooking oil doesn't.
Click to expand...

I think it could be worth a call to HMRC see what they say... might not be worth it if its too much hastle.

And i guess if it wasn't everyone would do it.

mutsnutz said:
i looked into this a few years ago and was told by hmrc that i would have to pay 54p per litre on the waste motor oil as it is a taxable commodity i argued that it had been taxed already but was told as it was being used as a fuel it was liable for tax again at the same rate as fuel duty which at the time was 54p per litre its up to you how much you declare you use but they can spot check you
Click to expand...

I think you might be right but will i also have to register as an oil production plant. Paying £0.58 tax per liter is too bad when you get the oil for free

ANyway... time to call the taxman not sure if he'll be back to work yet maybe monday. what am i saying it's 4:30pm he'll be home by now....
:biggrin1::biggrin1:
 
Your wasting your time with the finer points of if its legal or not, as using wmo as a fuel in a diesel engine will cost you more in time and hassle than it's worth.
It's no good as a fuel and will constantly crud the tips of your injectors up.
 
spencer1885 said:
Your wasting your time with the finer points of if its legal or not, as using wmo as a fuel in a diesel engine will cost you more in time and hassle than it's worth.
It's no good as a fuel and will constantly crud the tips of your injectors up.
Click to expand...

I was planning to filter using 25 micron filter after allowing it to sit and settle for a couple of weeks... Then use a centrifugal filter which should get it down to about 0.5 microns. Then dry the oil before passing though a stop water filter and thinning it down and using it.

Do you think that would still cause problems???? It's very tempting as the savings even paying £0.58 tax is huge...

I'm interested to hear any advise you guys have....
 
olesmokie said:
I was planning to filter using 25 micron filter after allowing it to sit and settle for a couple of weeks... Then use a centrifugal filter which should get it down to about 0.5 microns. Then dry the oil before passing though a stop water filter and thinning it down and using it.

Do you think that would still cause problems???? It's very tempting as the savings even paying £0.58 tax is huge...

I'm interested to hear any advise you guys have....
Click to expand...
None of that removes the corrosive elements in used engine oil.
 
olesmokie said:
And those corrosive elements



??

Forgive my ignorance. I was hoping that used engine oil would be better that WVO or SVO since it's used in engines.
Click to expand...
Why would you think used lubricating oil would be better than veg oil?
combustion byproducts produce acids and carbon deposits in suspension in used engine oil from diesels.
Personally I wouldn't touch it, I've seen the damage it can cause. Short term saving, long term problems.
 
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