tracking

Hippo said:

May I ask if you saw them actually measure the rear wheels and adjust them if needed, for that price?

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Does seem cheap!

Hippo said:

May I ask if you saw them actually measure the rear wheels and adjust them if needed, for that price?

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Hippo,

The guy that did the job said the the rear wheels were spot on, he showed me on the computer everything he'd done (not that i had a clue what he was on about!) they also have a live feed to the tv in the waiting area so you can what them adjust etc. Dont know hif he measured the rear wheels to be honest, he did say he'd check all tyre pressures as well

Dom2599 said:

Hippo,

The guy that did the job said the the rear wheels were spot on, he showed me on the computer everything he'd done (not that i had a clue what he was on about!) they also have a live feed to the tv in the waiting area so you can what them adjust etc. Dont know hif he measured the rear wheels to be honest, he did say he'd check all tyre pressures as well

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Tyre pressures are a prerequisite of doing the job! Cos it won't sit level which can affect the out come! As long as your rear toe and thrust angle are ok it's fine
You can have your over all toe correct but the thrust angle wrong. This would show up as pulling on the road!

Diesel Do said:

It's mainly ignorance! It's Chinese whispers training in the centres, staff don't stay long and it gets dumbed down each time it gets passed on eventually leading to a **** job! I've done the training with Mercedes, they had pulling issues so we all had to do it, it was the rear thrust angle that made them follow the camber! We had to offset it to make them steer up the camber from the rear to stop the pulling! That's lost 95% of the Peops here!

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Is this not what the "set back" is for?

I have a 4 wheel aligner at work. never been on a training course or anything but with a poke here and a prod there i can get it to do allmost what i want it to. Not the quickest and not perfect though. Still trying to understand the gritty bits of it

Set backs basically the amount each rear wheel is set back from the front one. On a car with Propper axles that will affect the thrust angle but on IRS you can have unequal setback but ok thrust angle! If you draw a straight line thru the car the thrust angle is the steering angle compared to that line ie both slightly to the left or one straight one to the left is still a thrust angle to the left. They can toe out or in as long as its equal about that centre line so basically it's the tracking but centralising it so it drives straight. Set back shouldn't affect that! hope that helps

that will make sence when i read it a few times.

What about if your rear toe in is correct, but its all on one side i.e: 2mm on l/h and 0 on r/h and you have a fixed axle. You can adjust the front to compensate and to draw the thrust line accross but surely this will result in uneven tyre wear.

Also if you were going to do 4 wheel align and ALL 4 wheels were out, how would you set up the rear if you didnt have a reference point from the front? make sure the wheels on each axle are parallel then adjust and tweek to get the 2 axles in line?

Kizzeh said:

that will make sence when i read it a few times.

Not the clearest

What about if your rear toe in is correct, but its all on one side i.e: 2mm on l/h and 0 on r/h and you have a fixed axle. You can adjust the front to compensate and to draw the thrust line accross but surely this will result in uneven tyre wear.

Unfortunately if it's fixed you haven't got a lot of choice! You can shim the trailing arms on discos etc which will adjust set back and thrust and toe cos it effects everything on those so it's a bit of a compromise! Other than that it's the front

Also if you were going to do 4 wheel align and ALL 4 wheels were out, how would you set up the rear if you didnt have a reference point from the front? make sure the wheels on each axle are parallel then adjust and tweek to get the 2 axles in line?

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unless its lifted and shoved the axle to one side it doesn't matter. Set the backs to the front then the fronts to the back and you should be done! Front tracking, castor and camber being out shouldn't affect the rear being set to them as long as they are central!

ah thank you for your help

so if i buy a trackace, would anyone want to borrow it

Last week I put new bushes track rod ends and balljoints in the front, new droplinks and new tyres on my TD4.

Transformed the drive ... so much better.

Then as I was passing a quiet "main chain" tyre depot I pulled in for a 4 wheel lazer alignment ... mainly to get the stering wheel centred.

For £65 he spent 60 minutes with the kit clamped on all wheels - adjusting the tie rods at the rear wheels first, then the front sorted.
I stood right by him throughout - even under the car on the ramp and he explained the min/max range on the screen and why the rear is important.

Mine was within the green sector of acceptable limits when I arrived, but he had no other work so kept adjusting and re-adjusting until every measurement was as near to perfect as you could get.

When I drove off afterwards ... the car feels like brand new .. a substantial and noticeable improvement.

Most surprising and well spent £65 i have done on a vehicle ... and no way could I have acheived that with tapes/fishing line etc.

so without sounding daft u paid 65 pounds for something that did not really need doing,but if i buy a trackace for 70pounds and mine are ok i have wasted my money, it would prove though the tape measure way works or not , do i really want to doubt my old fashioned way, got me thinking,

no1birdman said:

so without sounding daft u paid 65 pounds for something that did not really need doing,but if i buy a trackace for 70pounds and mine are ok i have wasted my money, it would prove though the tape measure way works or not , do i really want to doubt my old fashioned way, got me thinking,

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Well,
The steering wheel needed centering - so it was at least a front adjustment.

Now,
The vehicle was up on a level lift and all four wheels were lazer aligned at the same time. The guy spent nearly an hour (+ paperwork time) under the vehicle constantly re-adjusting the tie rods at the rear and the front until all four wheels were in perfect proper alignment with each other - side to side and back to front - on the screen that you could see whilst under the vehicle at an easy working height.

I cannot imagine coming even close to that with a home device that can only be used on one axle at a time and doesn't align front to rear, just across the axle.
Then there is the getting down underneath to do the adjustments on the driveway.

So,
whilst the front and rear toe and camber settings were (just) within the min/max limits, (here were different settings on each wheel) ...
..I thought the car felt good on the road - in fact better than it had done in a long time before I took it in - but, it definately felt a noticeably better again after I had this done on a professional rig.

I live in a rural area, a mile up a potholed dirt track, so I would certainly consider having this done once a year and consider it money well spent.

Mark2 said:

Well,
The steering wheel needed centering - so it was at least a front adjustment.

Now,
The vehicle was up on a level lift and all four wheels were lazer aligned at the same time. The guy spent nearly an hour (+ paperwork time) under the vehicle constantly re-adjusting the tie rods at the rear and the front until all four wheels were in perfect proper alignment with each other - side to side and back to front - on the screen that you could see whilst under the vehicle at an easy working height.

I cannot imagine coming even close to that with a home device that can only be used on one axle at a time and doesn't align front to rear, just across the axle.
Then there is the getting down underneath to do the adjustments on the driveway.

So,
whilst the front and rear toe and camber settings were (just) within the min/max limits, (here were different settings on each wheel) ...
..I thought the car felt good on the road - in fact better than it had done in a long time before I took it in - but, it definately felt a noticeably better again after I had this done on a professional rig.

I live in a rural area, a mile up a potholed dirt track, so I would certainly consider having this done once a year and consider it money well spent.

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Sounds like you got a guy that knew what he was doing! People just don't understand what's involved in doing it properly! Modern set ups will do all wheels at the same time, older ones you have to put the on the back first, adjust that end then swap everything around and do the front, the results the same it just takes longer! The equipment is only as good as the guy using it! You can have thousands of pounds worth of the latest gear and no idea, or and old fashioned set up and do a great job. I have to wonder what results you get when you've never done it before with equipment you know nothing about and you don't understand what you're trying to achieve! I'd pay someone to do it who has a good reputation! I'm in the trade and no longer have access to the equipment, it's what I do.

I remember driving away from the main dealer and thinking I'd picked up a new car too. Felt totally different after a complete set-up of steering geometry and wheel alignment. Some years later I needed it done again. Rear wheels were out so front only setup wasn’t enough. After struggling to find somewhere independent who could do it I bought a trackace and did it myself. It can only do 2 wheels on the same axle. But you can get round that using parallel lines. Just take time to make sure everything is correct as you progress. Double checking all the way. It worked and felt ok. HippoTrack below.


DSCN2423 ODFAqsy

Hippo said:

I remember driving away from the main dealer and thinking I'd picked up a new car too. Felt totally different after a complete set-up of steering geometry and wheel alignment. Some years later I needed it done again. Rear wheels were out so front only setup wasn’t enough. After struggling to find somewhere independent who could do it I bought a trackace and did it myself. It can only do 2 wheels on the same axle. But you can get round that using parallel lines. Just take time to make sure everything is correct as you progress. Double checking all the way. It worked and felt ok. HippoTrack below.

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You've got way too much time on your hands!

i do it by sticking a couple of wedges pins ets in back of front wheels at the same height and measure, roll forward so dont drive over pins, again at same height and measure again, difference is toe in or out, easy, above though looks good